On this week's episode, we share our first impressions of the 2026 Toyota BZ Woodland, a 375-hp all-wheel-drive EV that promises more space, extra ground clearance, and a little off-road attitude. But is the Woodland really built for the wilderness—or is it better thought of as a quick, practical electric station wagon? We discuss its surprising acceleration, EPA-rated range, cargo area, infotainment and controls, and overly sensitive driver-monitoring system. Plus, we answer an audience question about why cars don't have automatic rain-sensing rear wipers, which turned into a debate over whether cars really need rear windshield wipers at all.
Join CR at https://CR.org/joinviaYT to access our comprehensive ratings for items you use every day. CR is a mission-driven, independent, nonprofit organization.
SHOW NOTES
-----------------------------------
0:00 - Intro
00:36 Overview: 2026 Toyota bZ Woodland
01:18 What Does "Woodland" Actually Mean?
03:35 Toyota and Subaru's Growing EV Family
04:47 Performance
06:05 Interior Quality, Controls, and Usability
09:24 Driving Position and Storage
12:05 Cargo Space
14:13 Is the bZ Woodland an Electric Subaru Outback?
15:53 Toyota's Infotainment
18:20 Instrument Cluster
21:09 Phone Connectivity
24:40 All-Terrain Tires
25:19 Are "Off-Road" Trims Worth It?
28:14 Safety and Driver Assistance Features
33:41 Audience Question: Why No Rain-Sensing Rear Wipers?
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Test Results: 2026 Toyota bZ Woodland
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/toyota/bz-woodland/2026/overview/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
2026 Toyota bZ
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/toyota/bz/2026/overview/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
Popular Electric Vehicles to Avoid and What to Get Instead
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/electric-vehicles-to-avoid-and-the-evs-to-get-instead-a6654236864/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
Best Electric Cars of 2026, According to Consumer Reports' Tests
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/best-electric-vehicles-from-consumer-reports-tests-a3759669425/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
Most and Least Satisfying Hybrids, Plug-In Hybrids, and EVs
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/most-and-least-satisfying-electric-vehicles-and-hybrids-a2825600877/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
Most Reliable Used Electric Vehicles
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/most-reliable-used-electric-vehicles-a8864540677/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
00:00:00
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00:00:05
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00:00:09
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00:00:12
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00:00:14
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00:00:18
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00:00:36
Welcome back to Talking Cars.
00:00:37
I'm Michael Crossan.
00:00:38
I'm Jeff Bartlett. And I'm Maddie McCarty.
00:00:41
So we bought a 2026 Toyota BZ woodland,
00:00:44
and we paid $48.
00:00:47
And this is an all wheel drive
electric vehicle.
00:00:50
Ours has two motors
that make a combined 375 horsepower.
00:00:54
The battery is 74.7kW hours,
00:00:57
which is kind of pretty standard
for Toyota at this point.
00:00:59
And according to the EPA, gets 281
miles of range, or at least up to that.
00:01:04
It has the Tesla charging port,
00:01:05
which certainly opens up your options
for charging out in the world.
00:01:08
And it's kind of like a regular BZ,
00:01:10
except, much to my delight,
it is a station wagon.
00:01:14
But I'm confused about the name.
00:01:15
So could someone please help me out
with the woodland part?
00:01:18
I'll take that.
00:01:19
The name is definitely confusing
as we're tripping over testing a busy
00:01:23
and busy woodland at the same time.
The same color too.
00:01:26
Yeah, they're both Darth Vader black
and it is definitely confusing.
00:01:29
So BS stands for Beyond Zero, which is
Toyota's name for essentially electric.
00:01:36
Not intuitive, but there it is.
00:01:37
Woodland is a name
that's come from a trim
00:01:40
that's been on other vehicles,
like the Rav4 and the Sienna.
00:01:43
That describes
kind of an outdoorsy package.
00:01:47
I won't say off road, but outdoorsy.
00:01:49
Is it that where most people use
their cars, though, is outdoors?
00:01:52
Most of them do. That's right. Yeah.
00:01:57
But many of them are in mall parking lots
rather than on trail.
00:02:00
So together, this is an electric vehicle
that has some off road character.
00:02:06
But really,
I think the name is a distraction
00:02:09
because as I think we found,
00:02:12
it's actually its strength is on the road
where we're at.
00:02:15
It is pretty delightful.
00:02:17
But that is technically what it means.
00:02:19
This is what I think.
00:02:20
I was trying to answer this question
myself.
00:02:22
Like, why would they name it the woodland?
00:02:23
And I think it's just
because they have added ground clearance,
00:02:26
but it's not even like the most ground
clearance
00:02:29
you can get if you want
a very outdoorsy off roading vehicle.
00:02:33
And then there's the option
for the all terrain tire
00:02:36
doesn't even come with it
as like standard, right?
00:02:38
It's like you can do it.
00:02:40
So it's like you can kind of make it
woodland, but it's not a true woodland.
00:02:45
Yeah, yeah.
00:02:46
I suspect that Navi buyers probably
not going to want those all terrain tires.
00:02:50
Yeah.
00:02:50
Because it's just going
to reduce the range.
00:02:54
Yeah.
00:02:54
It'll cost
you 20 miles of range right off the bat.
00:02:57
The, ground clearance is a little bit
more than the BZ, which is 8.1.
00:03:03
This as 8.4.
00:03:06
I don't know
00:03:06
what the real world
benefit of that's going to be.
00:03:09
All right.
00:03:10
So we bought the off road trim
without the off road bits.
00:03:13
That's what it sounds like.
00:03:14
Kinda okay.
00:03:16
So it's got a cool name right. It's.
00:03:19
Yeah. Yeah.
The name sounds a feeling for sure. Yeah.
00:03:21
And it's got tons of plastic
on the outside. It does.
00:03:24
That's really the big draw.
00:03:25
And like non painted plastic, that stuff
that eventually kind of turns gray
00:03:29
and doesn't look so good.
00:03:30
Right. Right.
00:03:31
And the real marketing twist
is they have some on the hood too.
00:03:35
Right. Which is unusual really selling it.
00:03:38
They are now another thing here
that I guess I'm a little confused about
00:03:41
is there's a lot of these
and I mean, like, these things,
00:03:43
but there's the beezy,
there's the beezy, woodland.
00:03:46
And then famously, Toyota and Subaru
00:03:48
have had a partnership
for electrified vehicles,
00:03:50
which, let's face it,
if you're going to part with someone,
00:03:52
Toyota was not a bad partner when it comes
to electrified vehicles, but there is.
00:03:55
I have to actually look at the list here.
00:03:56
There's the uncharted, the Solterra
and the trail seeker.
00:03:59
There's also Lexus too.
00:04:00
We have the S, EV, the 500 in its kind
on the same platform too.
00:04:05
Yeah, and coming soon, The getaway
and the Highlander are on the same place.
00:04:09
Oh boy two okay, so there's this small,
medium, large, extra large and luxury.
00:04:13
And there's the car. Correct.
00:04:15
Even smaller. Correct. Yeah. So it's like.
00:04:17
And you said like
they're all the same platform basically.
00:04:20
So it's how big of a car.
00:04:22
So pick your size of car.
00:04:23
You want to pick the wheelbase
or how much stuff you have.
00:04:26
So in a way that sounds genius.
00:04:28
So it's a car for everybody
maybe kind of okay, maybe.
00:04:30
All right.
So we're all on the same page here.
00:04:32
And now we all know exactly
what this car is and what it means.
00:04:35
I think we'll just get into it
because we have a busy.
00:04:38
We now have the woodland,
we have the Subaru uncharted.
00:04:41
We've bought all of those to test.
00:04:43
We have currently borrowed a trail seeker
and a new solterra.
00:04:47
Again, probably confusing everybody.
00:04:48
But this thing has 375 horsepower
and it gets down the road pretty good.
00:04:52
Does anyone have any sort of complaints
about how this thing drives?
00:04:56
I never complain about a quick car.
00:04:58
The official number,
0 to 60 is 4.4 seconds,
00:05:02
which is crazy quick for a car
that's really not a performance vehicle
00:05:06
that matches our model
Y for our test results, which is insane.
00:05:11
That's super fast.
00:05:12
Yeah. Wish it matched it for range.
00:05:15
Yeah, that would be nice.
00:05:16
The range is a little bit
on the lower side,
00:05:20
but I think owners would be delighted
by how quick it is.
00:05:23
It is really fun. Sort of surprising.
00:05:26
The, the woodland has not
is just entering test as, as we speak.
00:05:30
So I haven't done 0 to 60 on it yet
but I assume it'll do that are about this.
00:05:34
But in testing the b z in the uncharted,
they are legitimately fast.
00:05:37
They do spin the front tires a little bit.
00:05:39
And the other day
we were getting some, rollers,
00:05:42
which is when we go out and shoot
car, the car out on the track.
00:05:44
And I was driving the camera car
00:05:45
and my Quincy, was driving the woodland
and we're on the radio.
00:05:49
It's like,
okay, now kind of make a pass around us.
00:05:52
He put his foot to the floor and he wasn't
really expecting the thrust of this car,
00:05:57
and it was pretty close
to a rear end collision to the car.
00:06:02
He just sort of took him by surprise.
00:06:03
So I think it might take a lot of people
by surprise. Yeah.
00:06:06
Because these are sort of not the
the showy EVs and the the sporty EVs.
00:06:10
This is more of a practical, everyday EV,
but it certainly moves out pretty well.
00:06:14
Yeah.
00:06:14
It's just an unexpected benefit
of being electric.
00:06:17
And, it's nice to have something
that's a little extra fun.
00:06:21
Yeah.
00:06:22
So we already kind of touched on
some of the
00:06:24
the look of this car
with all this sort of black plastic and,
00:06:29
I wish it really sort of stayed
on the outside of the car.
00:06:32
But it has certainly made its way
in the car.
00:06:35
And, personally,
I had, some family members in the car
00:06:38
and someone commented on it
that this car seems very rubbery.
00:06:41
I think it was like the all weather mats
00:06:43
and everything was just sort
of the same kind of color.
00:06:45
But I mean, rubber is not a,
a really good, sort of superlative to,
00:06:50
to give a car.
00:06:51
So it did make a great first impression
for at least that passenger.
00:06:53
But is it,
00:06:56
I mean, do we think it's appropriate
for this price point?
00:06:59
I think with our particular car,
it stands out
00:07:01
and that it's black on black on black on
the outside has tails and then the inside,
00:07:06
like I said, it's got the all-weather mats
which have now there's the woodland fun.
00:07:11
But the black
00:07:11
interior does just feel a little dour now,
even if the materials weren't different,
00:07:16
if there was some contrasting color,
just something to look a little different.
00:07:20
Maybe the impression
that's what the beezy had.
00:07:23
It did have a little bit of gray,
which is not a huge amount
00:07:26
or a huge difference in color,
but there was something to break up
00:07:30
the sea of black.
00:07:31
Sure.
00:07:32
My Monticello said, which I really liked.
00:07:35
And Matty.
So he's being our usability expert.
00:07:37
How does like, all this sort of
monochromatic sort of look of everything
00:07:41
really play into usability of a car
and like finding the right button
00:07:45
and all that kind of stuff.
00:07:46
If everything looks the same,
that means you have to just spend
00:07:49
that much more effort or time to find,
like to do that visual scan and search
00:07:55
and identify the one button that you want
because everything looks
00:07:58
the same in that case.
And some of the controls, you know,
00:08:01
we don't love like the
the shifter mechanism.
00:08:04
Yeah. So I'm gonna call that a pig snout.
00:08:06
Was that you tested
00:08:08
it? Since I've heard
00:08:09
that, I can't unsee that
every time I use it
00:08:12
and I put my hand down, I'm like,
I'm grabbing a piece of it right now.
00:08:15
It's. Yeah. Your little piggy.
00:08:16
Push it twisted. Yeah, but it works, okay.
00:08:18
It is just a little car.
00:08:19
I've had some, mischiefs.
00:08:21
I accidentally,
I thought I had put it into drive,
00:08:26
but I had accidentally, like,
pushed it and kept it in reverse.
00:08:30
And so I shot back a little bit
more than expected.
00:08:32
But there are no cars on that. So.
00:08:34
Yeah. Yeah. On there. Yeah.
00:08:36
I mean,
and it immediately shifts into neutral
00:08:38
when you just even give it
like a little press down.
00:08:40
There's like a little ring around a larger
what looks like it should be a button,
00:08:44
but it's just stationary.
00:08:46
And you press that down even quickly.
00:08:47
It shifts into neutral,
00:08:49
and you have to press it down to shift
it right drive or left to reverse.
00:08:53
So it's very easy to unintentionally shift
into neutral as well.
00:08:56
So I'm just not a big fan of this design.
00:08:58
I myself have had too many errors.
00:09:01
I find the parking button
a little hard to hit to.
00:09:03
Yeah, it's kind of small.
00:09:04
And all of the plastic around
it is really smooth.
00:09:09
You know, just kind of unusually
absent of texture.
00:09:11
Yeah, I find that hard to.
00:09:13
Yeah, it's barely the size of my thumb.
00:09:15
And it is a wide console.
00:09:17
There's a lot of real estate there,
so they could have
00:09:19
maybe done something else
and use some of that space.
00:09:21
And that's one of the sort
of my complaints of the car.
00:09:23
And Jeff, you were of similar size.
00:09:25
So I think it's going to be a complaint
for you as well.
00:09:27
But the drivers area is pretty cramped.
00:09:28
And I think part of
that is how wide that console is.
00:09:31
You have the side by side phone chargers
and it just takes up a lot of real estate.
00:09:35
So I mean for me
that's a deal breaker on this car.
00:09:37
Like I love how it drives.
It's pretty comfortable.
00:09:39
The ride quality is good,
but I just don't fit in all that well.
00:09:43
Yeah, you're a little taller, so
you probably impact you a little bit more.
00:09:47
But yeah, it's kind of follows
the trend with the crown insignia,
00:09:50
which is another car
kind of similar form factor.
00:09:53
Yeah.
00:09:53
But the, the driver's compartment
is a bit narrow, on the busy woodland.
00:09:59
And that and the busy,
the other disappointment of how
00:10:02
that's packaged
is, you know, it seems great.
00:10:05
Okay, I got to phone
00:10:07
Matt side by side, but there isn't, like,
a little extra storage nook.
00:10:11
There's no space for small items
like you have to use the center console.
00:10:17
And even then.
00:10:19
So like, there's no glove box, right?
00:10:20
There's no glove box
and there's a huge owner's manual.
00:10:23
And then you also. Yeah.
00:10:25
And then you also have
the charger little container.
00:10:28
Yeah. So there's a couple of adapters.
Yeah. Constantly floating around.
00:10:31
And so the owner's manual fits
in this pass through underneath
00:10:35
the center console. So you can't use that.
00:10:37
And then the can
the little box container for the adapters.
00:10:41
So again you just have this lack of space
where you can't put your keys.
00:10:47
I mean
00:10:48
your wallet, even if you don't want
your phone to be on the wireless charger
00:10:51
because it'll heat up your phone,
you're just there's just limited space.
00:10:55
And I think that's one of the pitfalls
of this vehicle.
00:10:57
Yeah.
00:10:58
I, I spent the weekend stacking things
just in the phone chargers where it was
00:11:01
phone wallet.
00:11:03
I had keys, the car,
I had shop keys, I had house keys.
00:11:07
I just
I just started stacking stuff on there.
00:11:09
And I mean,
I know it's not good for the charger.
00:11:10
Put metal objects in there.
00:11:11
And, my phone certainly wasn't
on the bottom of that whole mess.
00:11:14
But yeah, it was a little frustrating.
00:11:16
I just imagine in doing that,
you know, scratch all that stuff up
00:11:19
and maybe cause a problem with the charger
or something like that.
00:11:21
So yeah, it would be nice.
00:11:22
Who knows what the power is going to do
00:11:24
to, you know, your key fobs
or whatever else you put on there.
00:11:27
Plus it doesn't really have a little
sidewalls to hold things in place.
00:11:30
So I definitely that's something
we're going to kind of watch as we,
00:11:33
you know,
we own a couple of these variants of car.
00:11:35
But as we continue to use these
and test these cars to see sort
00:11:38
of how all that progresses.
00:11:39
So I think Toyota's answer,
in your kind of spirit of the woodland is
00:11:43
they're expecting their owners
to wear cargo pants.
00:11:45
So you got to put all your stuff
in the pocket.
00:11:47
Okay. Yep.
00:11:48
I didn't think about that. You know,
I think you're right.
00:11:50
I definitely won't fit in this car
if I have all my stuff in cargo pants.
00:11:53
Well,
maybe a fanny packs the solution for you.
00:11:56
That.
00:11:56
Yeah, that could be.
00:11:56
Yeah, we can bring those back,
I think. Sure.
00:11:59
I wonder if we test those down in Yonkers.
00:12:01
They make you a deal on one.
00:12:03
So this is a wagon.
00:12:04
And I love station wagons.
00:12:06
They are, I think, my favorite
sort of form of vehicle.
00:12:08
So we get extra room, cargo room.
00:12:11
We get extra length out of this vehicle.
00:12:12
That is one of the things
that they advertise.
00:12:14
And I think,
what do they say? Is it six inches in?
00:12:16
Yeah, it's six inches longer and there's
a hint of extra space for the backseat.
00:12:21
And the most of it is in the cargo.
00:12:22
Okay, so you are getting quite
a lot of cargo with this wilderness.
00:12:25
So if you were, you know, going
camping or something like that, I suppose,
00:12:28
you could put more stuff back there
00:12:30
or go into a big box store
and loading up on supplies.
00:12:33
Sure. Yeah. Probably more likely
if you're going skiing.
00:12:35
I went skiing with the boys and my skis
barely fit, and I'm not even that tall.
00:12:40
Interesting.
00:12:40
But the extra few inches
it would be perfect.
00:12:43
Yeah.
00:12:43
And I think also too, I noticed
00:12:44
we had these two parts in the shop
next to each other.
00:12:47
And it was actually we had the question
about is this really taller?
00:12:50
So it's kind of out there looking at it,
it looks taller,
00:12:52
but this has more of a traditional roof
rack and roof rails.
00:12:55
Right.
And it actually came with crossbars.
00:12:58
Know we're going to take off the testing
process because it does affect range,
00:13:01
but you could mount skis or snowboards
or whatever,
00:13:04
you know, cargo box, the roof
to save some extra interior space too.
00:13:07
So, of course, all or anything
00:13:09
you hang on
the outside of the car will affect range,
00:13:11
which isn't really the strong suit of this
vehicle.
00:13:14
Right? Yeah,
I wouldn't want to compromise it.
00:13:16
And if further. So a great reminder.
00:13:18
You're not using something.
Take it off. Yeah, exactly.
00:13:21
But it is
nice to have the extra cargo space.
00:13:23
And I think the wagon looks cool.
00:13:24
A little more squared off back there.
00:13:26
Yeah, I like the look of it.
00:13:27
Especially in comparison to the B.C.E..
00:13:29
It's a little more traditional
looking, too, I think.
00:13:31
Just in a parking lot with the other cars.
00:13:33
Yeah.
00:13:33
It does
blend in, for better or for worse.
00:13:36
So you don't really stand out
as this futuristic EV style.
00:13:40
It's just like,
oh yeah, there's another Toyota.
00:13:42
Well, it would stand out if it was a color
and you had all.
00:13:44
That's true. That's true. Yeah.
00:13:46
You know, it makes you look like you're,
you know, an outback wilderness or,
00:13:50
you know, some extroverted,
you know, activity vehicle.
00:13:53
So it's funny you mentioned Outback.
00:13:54
I had it over
00:13:55
weekend, and I was taking too much stuff
out of my garage,
00:13:58
loading the car,
and I was moving all over my shop.
00:14:00
I just sort of saw the car
out of the corner of my eye,
00:14:01
and I had a moment where I was like,
I don't remember taking it out back,
00:14:04
but for the weekend,
because it just it's size and sort of
00:14:07
silhouette, in the out in the driveway
seemed very outback like.
00:14:10
Well, yeah, it's proportions even.
00:14:13
It's kind of it's mission.
00:14:14
It's ground clearance
even has x-mode like that.
00:14:17
Yeah.
00:14:18
You could I think it's fair
to think of it as a electric outback.
00:14:21
Yeah, I think fair enough.
00:14:23
Or at least outside the the old Outback
in terms of size and shape,
00:14:26
the new one's a little bigger, boxier.
00:14:27
But, yeah.
00:14:29
So it is cheaper. Sorry.
00:14:31
Oh, no. Absolutely.
The Outback, we've talked about that.
00:14:34
So we should probably talk about. Yeah.
00:14:35
I mean it is about depending on
like when we bought the versions
00:14:39
that we bought,
we bought an Outback for about 40.
00:14:43
And like you said, the busy
well on was 48, six, seven, eight.
00:14:46
Yeah. So that's quite a bit of money.
Yeah. For the step up.
00:14:48
Well but that's not much different than
the we paid for the XT, the Turbo Outback.
00:14:53
That's true.
00:14:53
We pay about 54 correct.
00:14:55
Yeah that's true I mean the woodland.
00:14:58
So there's only two trims.
00:15:00
There's the base
and that already has. So much in it.
00:15:03
It already has like the
the fake leather seats.
00:15:06
It has the seat heater,
00:15:09
the all weather match
or just a bunch of mid-grade.
00:15:13
Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:13
It doesn't feel like a barebones base.
00:15:16
So you're right in that
you would have to step up in the Outback
00:15:19
a few trims to get the same level
of amenities or creature comforts.
00:15:23
Yeah.
00:15:24
And and significantly,
00:15:25
you can't step up an outback enough
to rival the performance.
00:15:29
Oh, true. Yeah.
00:15:30
Even with the, you know, the
if you want that speed big engine, it's.
00:15:33
It's nothing like this hot rod.
00:15:34
You don't have to have an STI version
to even get close I think which
00:15:38
if they make a lobby that we buy and test
how interesting.
00:15:41
Could could be rallying.
That'd be amazing.
00:15:44
So, one thing I've always been critical
of with Toyota is their infotainment.
00:15:49
And being that we have our usability
infotainment person here
00:15:52
and it's more so,
it's always just fine to me.
00:15:54
It's never stand out.
It's always a little bit cluttered.
00:15:57
I don't love the maps that are in.
00:15:58
I love the way it all just looks
kind of the colors they use and stuff.
00:16:02
So, I'm the
I just connect my phone, I use CarPlay,
00:16:05
and I just sort of live in that world.
00:16:06
I set the car up once
and just have maps and music and go, but,
00:16:10
one thing I was sort of surprised about,
we sort of had
00:16:12
a new run of Toyota was coming
through, Rav4, the Rav4 Plug-In hybrid.
00:16:16
There's a new system.
00:16:17
It's there's a newer version
and that you can tell us more about it.
00:16:20
But I think the annoying part is this one
doesn't have that.
00:16:23
This is on the old system.
00:16:25
So can you kind of share some details
and some expertise on this. Yeah.
00:16:28
So this new system or not new system,
the older version is 14 inch touchscreen.
00:16:34
And if any of our listeners
or viewers are familiar
00:16:37
with the Lexus interface,
this is basically what it is.
00:16:40
So you have this really large touchscreen
with sort of embedded
00:16:43
dials for temperature,
and then everything else is touch based.
00:16:47
And so it doesn't have a home screen.
00:16:49
It has five or so different menus
that you can toggle through.
00:16:53
So you can only look at one thing
at a time.
00:16:55
And something that I really dislike
about Toyota Lexus is that if you don't
00:17:00
subscribe to their navigation, it defaults
to the Navigation Subscribe Now page.
00:17:06
And so that's just takes away
from the whole experience as well,
00:17:09
because they're facing an ad,
an ad every time.
00:17:12
Yeah. That yeah I don't like that.
00:17:14
But the climate,
at least the temperature dials
00:17:18
are physical and easy enough to use.
00:17:21
But everything else in the climate,
essentially almost everything else
00:17:24
is you get like a hard button
for defrost defrost,
00:17:27
which is good because that's something
you might need to know.
00:17:29
Yeah, you know, real quick.
00:17:31
But the newer version
that you were mentioning, Mike,
00:17:34
is it has that home screen.
00:17:36
It has like little widget.
00:17:37
So you can have your navigation
and your media and your phone
00:17:40
all at the same place, and it's just more
logically organized, I think.
00:17:45
So I unfortunately,
I do think that the busy woodland
00:17:49
would be better
if it had this newer system.
00:17:51
So it's kind of a shame
that it was not put into this one.
00:17:54
Yeah.
00:17:54
And I think you as a, as maybe a shop
or a buyer of a car,
00:17:57
you go to the dealer, you sit in a car,
00:17:58
you don't necessarily know
that there's a newer system in a Rav4,
00:18:01
because then you see this
new car, it's a new model.
00:18:03
You think you have the latest
and greatest, but you just don't.
00:18:06
And then knowing that, at least
I think I would feel a little bit
00:18:08
maybe cheated or taken advantage
of from spending all this money.
00:18:11
But I don't have the latest tech available
from this manufacturer in this car.
00:18:15
Yeah,
I think it would catch a lot of people
00:18:16
by surprise
because the Rav4 has been out for a while.
00:18:19
With the next gen system,
you'd think a car that comes after it.
00:18:21
But yeah, of course
00:18:22
this was developed along with the,
you know, small and medium.
00:18:26
Yeah.
00:18:27
You know, copy paste.
00:18:28
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
00:18:30
And I mean, yeah,
we're still dealing with the,
00:18:33
the instrument panel
that's way out on the dash. Yeah.
00:18:36
Create some problems
with seating position, driving position,
00:18:39
steering wheel height.
00:18:41
Yeah, yeah.
00:18:42
Even for me.
00:18:43
And I tend to sit a little higher up.
00:18:46
You can't even lower the seat
very much in this car anyways,
00:18:49
but I lower it
to, you know, my ideal high.
00:18:52
And then you have this game
that you have to play with.
00:18:55
You don't want the steering wheel
like into your legs,
00:18:58
but you also don't want it too high
because in blocks. Yeah.
00:19:01
What I think is like their mock HUD
head up display because it's so far back
00:19:05
and it's supposed to be like a projection
onto the windshield effect.
00:19:09
But if you raise the steering wheel
to an appropriate height,
00:19:13
then you block some of that content.
00:19:14
So you have to like sacrifice
a little bit of your driving position
00:19:17
one way or the other.
00:19:19
Yeah, I don't appreciate.
00:19:20
So at this point,
when we've seen it in a bunch of cars,
00:19:22
I've given up on caring
what the instrument panel says.
00:19:25
I just set it to what's most comfortable
and everyone's
00:19:28
while I kind of pick up and over
and look at my range.
00:19:30
But like, I don't need to know anything
that's on there.
00:19:32
There's just something of importance.
00:19:34
I know the speed or anything like that.
00:19:36
He just feels it.
00:19:37
Yeah, you know that that's it's valid.
00:19:39
It's a spring point. The window.
00:19:40
I want to be comfortable.
00:19:41
I don't want to be in this
00:19:43
position for what could be hours
at a time running errands.
00:19:46
And then the steering was low.
00:19:48
But then that makes ingress and egress
a little more difficult.
00:19:50
I've just kind of
00:19:51
given up and resigned myself to the fact
that I don't know how fast I'm going.
00:19:55
Maybe I know what the range is.
00:19:57
None of the other information
that this way for the little ding
00:20:00
of like the slow turtle
to come up when it when power shuts off.
00:20:04
I know
I went to the blue lights in the mirror.
00:20:06
I don't really have it going to zero.
00:20:10
Maybe that's what you're supposed to do.
00:20:11
I can see the appeal
of having it out there.
00:20:14
Like I said, it's
kind of like a low buck head up display.
00:20:17
But yeah,
the execution isn't quite working.
00:20:19
It may simply be because the seats
are so high, because of the battery pack.
00:20:23
Yeah, this could go down more as high.
00:20:24
So that would be a problem.
00:20:26
I so I used to own an old Prius.
00:20:30
That was a car that I learned to drive in.
00:20:32
And back then it had, the speedometer
in the center and it was far back.
00:20:38
And I liked that because it was
00:20:41
kind of like a HUD, except for
it wasn't directly in my line of sight
00:20:46
in terms of blocking
that part of the roadway.
00:20:49
So, I don't know, maybe bring that back.
00:20:52
And it's nice to be able keep your eyes up
rather than, yeah, looking down
00:20:56
not only for the the range of the motion,
00:20:59
but also the distance to focus,
you know, focusing near and then far.
00:21:02
So obviously yeah more challenging
I like that.
00:21:06
And then I need to bring up
00:21:06
because my Quincy
will never leave me alone
00:21:08
if I don't mention this phone
connectivity.
00:21:10
Oh in the Toyota the worse. Yeah.
00:21:13
And I always think it's me.
00:21:14
If there's phone problems,
00:21:15
I assume it's my phone
or I don't know how to use something, but,
00:21:18
they're very difficult
to connect your phone to.
00:21:21
At least I've experienced that.
00:21:23
But then you get out of the car,
you lock the car, are you going to store
00:21:26
whatever you come out?
00:21:27
And it is like, who? What? What's a phone?
00:21:31
But first, would you like to subscribe
to our services?
00:21:34
Well, I mean, we still have the map,
I think.
00:21:35
I think we're still within the,
the grace period. Oh it's gone.
00:21:38
Oh it is, it's gone.
00:21:39
Oh, I haven't been in it
like a week and a half.
00:21:41
Maybe it's gone
I know, I know, I use the maps
00:21:44
once because I always try to use the car
as it is at least once.
00:21:47
And then usually then connect my phone
and see how that goes,
00:21:50
which admittedly isn't going great.
00:21:52
Yeah, yeah, the logbook indicates
people have been having to.
00:21:55
Yeah,
I have to connect to wired at this point.
00:21:59
It won't do Bluetooth.
00:22:00
It certainly won't connect to Android
Auto anymore.
00:22:03
I always get that Android Auto error,
so I get that too.
00:22:06
And I even deleted like everybody's
phone. Yeah.
00:22:09
And it still gives you that.
00:22:10
Like it shouldn't even know that it ever
had an android connected to it. Yeah.
00:22:12
So there's something going on there
that I would think Toyota being Toyota
00:22:16
could figure this out.
00:22:16
And this isn't something
that is just one Toyota.
00:22:20
This is like universally all the Toyota
Lexuses that we've tested in recent years.
00:22:25
So there's something going on.
00:22:27
Even the new Rav4 infotainment system
we were just talking about okay.
00:22:31
Also had that issue. Yeah, okay.
00:22:33
And I mean, I will concede in our world
00:22:35
it's a little different
because we're in so many cars.
00:22:37
Yeah.
00:22:37
And I never have the right cable
or I leave them in cars
00:22:40
and I've gone through like 50 cables
in a couple of years.
00:22:43
So I always go with wireless.
00:22:44
And I'm also relying on that
wireless charger,
00:22:46
which sometimes works
and sometimes doesn't.
00:22:48
So definitely
sometimes I find myself with a dead phone,
00:22:51
I don't know where I'm going
and all that kind of stuff,
00:22:52
but if you're a buyer, you're
just going to have a cable in your car.
00:22:56
That probably solves that problem.
00:22:58
But I would still like to think
it has the technology.
00:23:01
It should work.
00:23:02
Yeah. Works in other cars. Well,
I think that's it.
00:23:04
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:05
Anyway, they're certainly capable of
00:23:06
doing awesome things with cars, so like,
why can't they make this work?
00:23:10
It's a great question directly to Toyota.
00:23:12
Yeah I don't think have answer this one.
00:23:13
Yeah I wish it did work. Yeah.
00:23:16
Oh for sure.
00:23:16
And for just swapping cars
even this past week.
00:23:20
Boy, some of them make it so easy.
00:23:22
The Hyundai Kia, for instance.
00:23:24
Not only everything
pairs up real quick, but
00:23:28
you end up with
00:23:28
a little logo on your phone, you know, but
you have to connect to this guy, right?
00:23:32
Right. Yeah.
00:23:32
Where's the Toyota's? Like,
what do you want?
00:23:35
I mean, it's,
00:23:37
you know, there's no friendly
little handshake.
00:23:38
Let's get going.
00:23:39
It's, quite different.
So yeah, hopefully they can call up.
00:23:42
And that's the kind of thing to you.
Go to a dealer, you test drive the car.
00:23:45
You're probably not
00:23:46
connecting your phone on a test drive,
because
00:23:47
why do you want to connect your phone
to some random car?
00:23:49
So you're not going to know this
until you've signed
00:23:52
on the line, spent the money,
and now you have this frustration.
00:23:56
So but definitely,
if you're thinking about one, get a cable,
00:23:58
get a good cable of an appropriate length,
at least have it in the car
00:24:01
if you don't use it all the time,
but as a backup.
00:24:03
Well, and you know your point of I'll
also try it.
00:24:06
You know, if you're thinking, you know,
today's the day I'm going to buy this car,
00:24:10
try it, make sure it works, and ask
00:24:12
questions of either,
the salesperson or whomever.
00:24:16
Is there any kind of tech associate?
00:24:18
Yeah, because they may have some tips
and tricks to set up this or any other car
00:24:23
so that you know you're the primary user
and it somehow goes
00:24:26
a little quicker for you. Okay. Yeah.
I mean, that is a good tip.
00:24:29
Because,
00:24:29
I mean, phones might be the worst thing
that ever happened to cars
00:24:32
in all of humanity,
but they're so important.
00:24:35
You know, we use them for work,
we use them for entertainment,
00:24:37
and they're they're critical
to car operation at this point.
00:24:39
Really. So, that is certainly important.
00:24:42
And I can't let the,
00:24:44
this off road all terrain thing go.
00:24:46
So, you know,
we mentioned that this thing gets 281
00:24:50
miles, approximately EPA rated range,
and that's with the all season tires.
00:24:55
If you get all terrains, that's
going to drop by about 20 miles of range.
00:24:59
But like, what are we really gaining back
from that really?
00:25:01
Other than it looks kind of cool.
And admittedly I think it looks awesome.
00:25:04
I mean, that's I think the big advantage
and look awesome.
00:25:06
Yeah.
00:25:07
I don't know what the advantage of the
I mean, it would be give you a hint,
00:25:10
more traction if you're driving through,
you know, mud or dirt roads and so forth.
00:25:15
But really a good set of all season
tires can do most things for most people.
00:25:20
So recently
00:25:21
we borrowed some off road vehicles or off
road trims of regular vehicles.
00:25:25
I drove a bunch of them
and was out there in the mud
00:25:29
with photo and video kind of making
all that happen to either of you.
00:25:32
Try, I don't know, the day was,
I don't remember, I didn't get the joy.
00:25:35
Okay.
00:25:36
So I was curious, though,
00:25:37
what are your thoughts on this off
road trim movement thing?
00:25:41
Do you like them? You think they're cool?
00:25:42
Is it a gimmick and not worth
the money is kind of a gimmick.
00:25:45
I think people buy off road
thinking that it's
00:25:48
going to be like driving to a camping spot
00:25:51
in a campground where there's a dirt road,
and not what true off roading
00:25:55
is, and going over rocks and stumps
and through the the actual wilderness.
00:26:00
And I think people just like the idea
and I myself included,
00:26:04
we like to have the option to do something
so that we feel like
00:26:09
if we get in that situation,
we have what we need.
00:26:12
We are in control. Okay.
00:26:13
So I think that's kind of why
this whole woodland off
00:26:17
road trend is happening.
00:26:20
Yeah, I think Americans in general
like to overbuy,
00:26:23
you know, there's something satisfying of
going beyond the minimum effort.
00:26:27
And really and I'm
shocked that you say that.
00:26:31
You have you caught me on such a thing.
00:26:33
I think that's part of it.
00:26:35
The other is the profit.
00:26:37
You know,
if they can put on $2 worth of extra
00:26:40
stuff and charge 5000,
you know, that's some easy money.
00:26:44
But I will say
my perspective changed a little bit with,
00:26:47
this round of soft roaders we had in
that the, found
00:26:53
that the concession
00:26:55
that a mild off road package
made was pretty minor on performance,
00:26:59
but getting the smaller wheels
with a larger sidewall,
00:27:03
that actually may be a real advantage
for people who drive on lousy roads.
00:27:07
Yeah, or just a gravel road.
This little washboard.
00:27:10
Like we have a road right out here
that fits that bill.
00:27:12
So I'm thinking not just traction, but,
if you're driving through cities
00:27:15
with potholes or.
00:27:16
Yeah, it just may protect the wheels.
00:27:18
May protect the ride.
00:27:19
There may be kind of an unusual case.
00:27:21
It's interesting to say that when,
back in April, the auto show in New York,
00:27:25
we actually picked up
one of the soft roaders, the the Kia
00:27:28
Sportage X-Line Pro, whatever they call
it was in that city.
00:27:32
Yeah, it had been, at the auto
show on press day.
00:27:34
They pulled it off the floor
and I picked it up in parking garage.
00:27:37
We brought it back
00:27:38
and actually thought
00:27:38
it did great on the highway coming back,
but it really in the city
00:27:41
and a little more confidence
because it was on like an all terrain tire
00:27:44
and worry about curbs and potholes
and all that kind of stuff so much.
00:27:49
So maybe there is sort of that urban off
road reason
00:27:51
for it to know,
like there's a kind of a neat case there.
00:27:54
And now more importantly,
when you go to these auto shows,
00:27:57
can you just pick any car off the floor
and drive it home?
00:28:00
It's not all that work.
00:28:01
And if you work for a consumer force,
you do know that. Yes. Oh, okay.
00:28:04
I have to play that game. You just
you can say that one.
00:28:06
I'll take that one, please.
00:28:07
And if you're nice about it,
they'll they'll give you
00:28:09
one of those signs
you paid for your ticket I guess.
00:28:10
Yeah. Basically. So. Okay. Yeah.
Try it out.
00:28:12
I don't try it out.
00:28:13
Don't know.
We try that. I'm not giving you car.
00:28:16
All right. So I think I'm assuming that.
00:28:18
Any other thoughts on this
on this busy woodland?
00:28:20
I do want to talk about the safety
features, the driver assistance features.
00:28:25
So it does come
standard with Toyota Safety Sense 3.0.
00:28:29
And I say it like that
because now there is Toyota Safety Sense
00:28:32
4.0 again equipped on the new Rav4.
00:28:36
So once again you are getting outdated.
00:28:39
Yeah a little bit behind. Yeah.
00:28:41
But that's not to say that it's
not effective or that it doesn't work.
00:28:44
Well it does.
00:28:45
So Toyota Safety Sense does come
with forward collision warning AEB
00:28:49
with pedestrian detection, adaptive cruise
control, lane departure warning, lane
00:28:53
keeping assistance, lane centering
assistance, automatic high beams and more.
00:28:58
The woodland itself comes
with, blind spot
00:29:02
warning and rear cross traffic
warning as standard, which we at c r think
00:29:06
are incredibly important to have
and they've been shown to reduce crashes.
00:29:10
So that's something
00:29:11
that we are really happy to hear that
Toyota has equipped US standard.
00:29:15
There's also rear
automatic emergency braking.
00:29:18
And then something that I personally like
00:29:20
and maybe others
don't is the panoramic view monitor.
00:29:23
With this 360 overhead view,
which is basically
00:29:27
it looks like there's a camera
that's just right above you,
00:29:29
and you can see all around the car
and sometimes even a little bit
00:29:32
underneath that,
which I think is super handy for parking.
00:29:35
And even just checking
if you're going to be pulling out
00:29:39
of a spot, double checking that there's
nothing in front of you or behind you.
00:29:42
It's one of my favorite things,
so I'm glad that it's it's standard.
00:29:46
Yeah.
00:29:46
When it comes in handy with all the off
roading that all the off roading.
00:29:49
Yeah. That also says that there's
a multi-terrain monitor. Yep.
00:29:52
There we go.
00:29:52
So I'm glad you actually brought that up
because can we talk about the driver
00:29:55
monitoring system on this car
for a minute. Yes.
00:29:57
So do you want to I mean it works.
00:30:00
It certainly works. It's working overtime.
00:30:02
Like you blink this thing
practically yells at you.
00:30:06
And I don't get this confused
because I've been in the new Solterra
00:30:10
and the thrill seeker
and kind of all these.
00:30:11
But they're all basically the same.
00:30:12
It's a little camera
at the top of the steering column at like
00:30:15
the 12:00 position, you know, and there's
the steering wheel is a little small.
00:30:19
It is kind of 14in.
00:30:20
And I find the most comfortable position
00:30:22
is with a hand up at the 12:00 position,
one hand whether it's left or right.
00:30:26
And often it is my left hand.
00:30:28
And then your arm is blocking this camera,
so it's always yelling at you to sit up.
00:30:31
Pay attention if you like.
00:30:33
Signal, check your mirror
and then do a head check.
00:30:35
It may yell at you as well.
00:30:37
It's hypersensitive, yeah, for sure.
00:30:39
And I totally get having the system
00:30:41
because I think it's worthwhile,
especially when you have L2 systems.
00:30:44
You want to make sure the driver
is paying attention on their phone
00:30:47
or doing
whatever else people do when they drive.
00:30:49
But this is hyperactive.
00:30:51
Yeah.
00:30:52
And I feel like, I didn't go in
and look to see if you can turn this off,
00:30:55
but you can't.
00:30:56
I really want to turn it off
because it is sort of so intrusive,
00:30:59
which then a safety system that you want
to turn off isn't really ideal either.
00:31:03
Right? Yeah.
00:31:03
It's it's kind of difficult
because what's that sweet spot of alerting
00:31:08
when someone is actually
not putting their eyes on the road versus
00:31:12
someone who's checking their blind spot
00:31:14
and doing that
head check and getting alerted?
00:31:16
So now you look forward a little bit
panicked. What's going on?
00:31:18
And then the whole thing
just gets out of control.
00:31:22
So I totally get
where you're coming from.
00:31:24
I also had to go off on me a lot when
I was just drinking from my water bottle,
00:31:28
which gets really annoying.
00:31:29
Yeah.
00:31:30
So something in the tuning maybe.
00:31:33
Or it's just over. Oversensitive.
00:31:35
Yeah. Delay it
by an extra second or something.
00:31:37
You should be able
to, like, look at a side mirror,
00:31:39
look over your shoulder and come back
without probably being yelled at.
00:31:42
I would think, yeah, because I mean,
that's sort of a normal driving.
00:31:45
That's normal driving behavior.
00:31:46
Yeah. You're still attending to the road.
00:31:48
It's not directly in front of you.
00:31:50
So yeah, it's a little bit
I mean, certainly though
00:31:52
if you do look down at your phone
or do something
00:31:53
you're not supposed to do,
it is going to yell at you.
00:31:55
Yes, I mean that it's very good.
And that's valid. Yeah.
00:31:58
I mean, I did have a couple of those
that probably were valid.
00:32:01
It's kind of teaching you in a way you're
like, oh, that that's not very long.
00:32:03
It's like a few seconds,
but you can go really far
00:32:06
down at 70 miles an hour
or 10s away from the road.
00:32:10
Yeah.
00:32:11
To its credit, I think when it did
00:32:13
go out for me, I
the unfairness, I wasn't looking.
00:32:16
Sure.
00:32:17
You know, more often than not,
I was trying to find a control. So.
00:32:20
Yeah, I mean, that's that's also part
of the design issue too, is if you have to
00:32:25
take your eyes off the road for longer
than a few seconds to use the system.
00:32:29
Right. It's nagging you for a problem
it created. Exactly.
00:32:31
But that's an interesting use case
that I hadn't really thought of.
00:32:35
You're putting your arm,
so I tend to drive that car.
00:32:38
Yeah, you're one gallon bottles.
00:32:41
It's a regular sized water bottle.
00:32:42
Well, let's not
go for this water bottle thing again.
00:32:44
So, yeah, I think they could have maybe
00:32:46
thought of a better place,
but I don't know where.
00:32:47
The best place to see one of these. Yeah.
00:32:49
So like we typically recommend
that it be on the steering wheel column
00:32:52
because it will raise and lower
with a steering wheel.
00:32:56
Right. So it should be on
00:32:57
presumably than the seat too
because you're moving usually. Yes. Yeah.
00:32:59
And so you want it in a centered position
so that it can see both of your eyes.
00:33:03
We see a lot of cameras that are like
in the headliner or the rearview mirror.
00:33:06
So then if you look
even a little bit towards the left,
00:33:09
it can no longer
see your your pupils and your eyes.
00:33:11
So then you can get false alerts.
00:33:13
Interesting.
00:33:13
So that's the way we typically recommend
in the center line.
00:33:16
But it seems like there's more issues
at play here
00:33:18
than just the position of that camera.
00:33:20
It's the the whole driving position.
00:33:23
And then the size of the steering wheel
that's making you want to.
00:33:26
Yeah, rest your hand on the top
rather than at like nine and three.
00:33:29
So there's a lot like factoring into this.
00:33:32
Okay. Cool.
00:33:33
I mean something
we'll keep an eye on and, you know,
00:33:35
we'll see what Toyota does in the future
with all their other cars.
00:33:37
Because certainly we're going to buy
every Toyota that comes out
00:33:41
and put them to our test program.
It's part of what we do.
00:33:43
So we actually have a question, for
the podcast that kind of relates to this.
00:33:47
And, this question was sent to you
talking cars@consumer.org.
00:33:51
I don't know if was actually sent to that.
00:33:52
That is a new email address that we have
and that's the one you use.
00:33:54
So it's talking cars at consumer Talk.
00:33:56
If you want to get
your question on the podcast
00:33:58
and if super producer Dave Abrams
picture question, he's
00:34:02
going to send you out some merch, a shirt,
maybe a hat, some stuff like that.
00:34:05
And I'm actually Dave doesn't do it.
Someone else does it.
00:34:07
But you know, it's coming from Dave.
So, yeah.
00:34:09
Well thank Dave for that.
00:34:10
So Chris from Annandale,
Virginia is asking
00:34:13
why do vehicles not have rain
sensing rear wipers?
00:34:16
I have never been in a vehicle
where I didn't have to manually
00:34:19
turn the rear wipers on and off,
and I find the standard settings
00:34:24
clear the rain too often when engaged.
00:34:27
So Chris is just sort of unhappy
with the functionality of rear wipers.
00:34:31
So this busy woodland has a rear wiper
where the regular BS doesn't,
00:34:35
and there's probably reasons to that.
00:34:37
I think we'll get into that
in answering this question, but,
00:34:40
I want to ask first
before we even answer this question,
00:34:42
because I have
a very strong opinion on this.
00:34:44
Do you like rear wipers?
00:34:46
Rear wipers can come in handy,
especially in our area where in the winter
00:34:49
you need to clear snow periodically.
00:34:51
But it is pretty important to note
most of the time you're driving
00:34:55
forward, it's forward that matters.
00:34:57
And when you're going in reverse, it's
a very deliberate decision in most cars.
00:35:01
Now, if the front wipers are
on, will turn on the rear.
00:35:05
Not all of them, but most of them.
00:35:06
Will somebody do you like the rear wiper?
00:35:09
I will die on this hill.
00:35:10
Yes, I need a rear wiper. Okay.
00:35:14
What what what's what do
I need to be able to see out the back?
00:35:18
Because I use my rearview mirror
to look out through the back
00:35:21
and make sure I can understand
what's going on behind me.
00:35:24
And I can't do that
if there's raindrops in the way.
00:35:26
I mean, that is a valid point, I suppose.
00:35:28
I am on team no rear wiper.
00:35:31
I can't stand them.
00:35:32
That's crazy.
00:35:33
That's just an art I don't understand.
00:35:35
Please explain.
00:35:35
Well, I don't like way they look,
00:35:38
but it's more so when there's
a functionality to this or to.
00:35:41
It's not so much
the wiper on the car itself.
00:35:43
What I really don't like is over time
it polishes a section of the rear glass.
00:35:48
So then like fog and do
and rain and stuff,
00:35:49
you can always see sort of that swipe
mark on the rear glass.
00:35:52
And I just think it looks atrocious.
00:35:54
How often are you using your wiper polish.
00:35:57
Oh it happens on every car
with a rear wiper.
00:35:59
Yeah. Next time you're like ten years
this, you'll see this.
00:36:02
Cars out there have this
like Polish section where the wiper runs.
00:36:05
You know I think is ridiculous though,
00:36:07
is that sometimes the rear wipers
are literally like six inches long.
00:36:10
This is my argument.
They're not all that useful.
00:36:13
They're tiny.
00:36:14
Some of them you will often
don't have great rear visibility.
00:36:16
Anyway.
00:36:17
And you have the rearview mirror,
which you can, you know, unless it's snow
00:36:21
covered, which you should clear your car
before you even get in it.
00:36:23
Okay. Oh, sorry.
00:36:25
Finish your thought.
And then I have an argument.
00:36:26
You know, if it's pouring rain.
00:36:28
I don't think that's helping you
all that much.
00:36:29
You have side mirrors, all these cars now.
00:36:32
New cars in for the last while,
if I had backup cameras,
00:36:35
which don't always work great in weather,
00:36:36
I will admit that some of them don't work
great on their own anyway.
00:36:39
I just don't think it's
worth all the effort.
00:36:42
Being a mechanic, you know, they break.
00:36:44
You got to fix them.
00:36:45
You have washer fluid running,
like through the car.
00:36:48
Now, up in the headliner.
00:36:49
Our gravity just went up to the dealer
for the service center
00:36:52
for a whole host of things in the rear
washer never worked.
00:36:54
The line was kink from the factory.
00:36:56
Oh, $111 car into year old.
00:36:58
And we finally took it up there for that.
00:37:00
That wasn't the only problem with
I know I was,
00:37:02
but there's a lot of complication to this
for what I think is not a lot of benefit
00:37:06
because like you say,
a lot of them are super small.
00:37:09
Yeah.
00:37:09
And people don't as a technician,
people don't maintain them.
00:37:13
You know, you call front wipers,
people might buy from wipers like $26
00:37:17
for this little rear wiper.
00:37:18
I'm not doing that
because I don't use anywhere.
00:37:20
It seems expensive.
00:37:21
I get it seems expensive,
but then that wipers worn out.
00:37:23
It's not working.
00:37:24
Well, you might be scratching the glass
because it's all worn out.
00:37:26
It just adds a lot of complication
for for what benefit.
00:37:29
And there is some benefit.
00:37:30
I just don't think in that scale
the benefit outweighs all the other stuff.
00:37:35
So I am team No wiper.
00:37:36
That was that was a really good argument.
00:37:39
But we haven't answered this question.
00:37:41
Can I give you my argument for an answer?
00:37:43
Chris? Chris is going away.
00:37:45
So if you're driving in a snowstorm,
00:37:48
as I was in the back
00:37:51
and there was no rear wiper
and that glasses sloped
00:37:56
just so that all of the snow
just stuck straight to it.
00:38:00
What's less vertical
that one is, is more on an angle. Yeah.
00:38:03
So yeah, it's more of a shelf in sedans.
00:38:05
I think sedans should have them.
00:38:07
I'm really
I really don't like that. They don't.
00:38:09
Because again the angle there even
the rain will just kind of like sit there
00:38:13
and you can't do anything about that
except for maybe drive faster
00:38:16
which you shouldn't
because it's raining. Correct.
00:38:18
So I need something
to just wipe that away.
00:38:22
And sometimes when it's raining,
all of the mist that gets,
00:38:26
turned up with all of the
the traffic or your tires.
00:38:30
I want to wipe that away, too.
00:38:31
I just like a clear view behind me.
00:38:33
So this actually does get into Chris's
question
00:38:35
because, typically you will see wipers on
vehicles, more of a vertical back glass,
00:38:39
because you do get that tumble effect
00:38:41
of all the rain in the midst
00:38:42
of the grossness on the road,
and it just sort of settles in that vacuum
00:38:45
on the back of the car,
typically like sedans or the bees,
00:38:49
unless there's, you know,
00:38:49
heavy amounts of snow, you often
actually get an aerodynamic effect
00:38:53
over the top of the car.
00:38:54
That sort of doesn't even let rain
hit the back glass of the car.
00:38:58
You know, if you're up to speed
and it starts to rain
00:38:59
like a light to moderate rain,
your back glass is generally pretty clear
00:39:03
in a lot of sedans because of
just the aerodynamic effect of all that
00:39:06
air rushing over over the top of the car,
sort of like an airplane wing.
00:39:10
But Chris is asking,
why are there no automatic?
00:39:12
So we have automatic wipers
on the front of the car. It makes sense.
00:39:15
You get a little bit of rain,
00:39:16
it comes on, swipes a couple of times
or swipes a lot or goes faster.
00:39:19
Everything like that.
00:39:20
I think part of this, honestly,
the actual technical answer is
00:39:22
it comes down to the technology used
for automatic rain sensing wipers to work
00:39:27
with these cars, a lot of cases up
sort of behind the the rearview mirror on
00:39:31
the glass, you'll actually see sort of a
like a little patch, if you will.
00:39:34
And there's other stuff up there too,
you know, there's cameras and things.
00:39:37
But there's a piece of technology
up there
00:39:38
and it's using, in most cases,
infrared laser between two points.
00:39:42
And it shoots this laser sort of across
the top of the glass and is looking for,
00:39:46
the refraction of the laser
in the droplets of water.
00:39:50
And that's how it knows
00:39:51
there's water, and b, how much water
and how fast turn these wipers on the car.
00:39:55
And also the system concerns
how fast the car is going,
00:39:57
and that plays
into the speed of the wipers as well.
00:39:59
I just think
00:40:00
because like you mentioned, the back
00:40:01
glass
gets a lot of sort of more deposits on it.
00:40:04
They're a lot finer.
00:40:04
I don't think you're going to get the same
refraction of like a big water drop.
00:40:08
And I remember,
you know, having been attacked,
00:40:10
people say, oh, my wipers don't work.
00:40:12
And they'll like take a water bottle
like squirt some on the windshield,
00:40:14
like, yeah, but it's like this
two inch by two inch spot.
00:40:17
That is the only place
that actually detects the water.
00:40:20
So, you know, it's not a system
or a windshield wide system.
00:40:23
It's a point,
but it's reasonable to assume
00:40:26
that if one point has this water,
it probably all does because of rain.
00:40:29
So I think that's probably
the technical answer. But yeah.
00:40:32
I know we're we're clearly divided on
00:40:34
and I know I probably am standing alone
on this side of the argument of,
00:40:37
well, you you bring up an interesting
in the perspective
00:40:40
of the person who has fixed many of these.
00:40:42
Yes, I do that kind of,
I think, lean toward Maddie's idea of,
00:40:46
you know, there are weather situations
where you're having a little clarity
00:40:49
there, even at very low speeds,
where your favorite
00:40:53
360 degree view camera,
you get some water drops on those cameras.
00:40:57
You can't see very clearly. Yeah.
00:40:59
So I'd like the systems to turn on
automatically when you put it in reverse.
00:41:04
Otherwise I'm not.
00:41:06
I'm not driving around with it on,
but it is nice to put it on intermittent
00:41:10
if you happen to be in
just that unique, weather situation.
00:41:13
But I wouldn't driving around
regularly like that.
00:41:16
I miss wipers on headlights, actually,
00:41:18
I think, I think that was actually a cool
look for on the esthetics of it.
00:41:22
But that went away,
so I'm definitely alone, I think on the,
00:41:25
the wiper side or the no wiper side of
this argument for the rear of the vehicle,
00:41:28
but I think this actually might be
a good opportunity
00:41:30
to use YouTube's pull function if you're
watching listing this on YouTube.
00:41:33
So we're have Dave put up a poll.
00:41:35
What team are you on? Rear wiper.
No rear wiper.
00:41:38
And, Dave, if you can please put an option
for headlight wipers.
00:41:41
Even though that's long ago outdated
tech, it actually was sort of a leftover
00:41:45
from a European regulation. Anyway,
it wasn't a US thing.
00:41:48
Some of the import cars just had them.
00:41:50
So, Chris, I hope we answered
your question in a in a long diatribe
00:41:54
about who likes rear wipers
and who doesn't.
00:41:57
But yeah, I, I, I can see everybody's
point on the other side.
00:42:00
I'm still going to stick to my team.
No rear wiper.
00:42:02
Well, I'm going to bet that the majority
are going to say they like a rear wiper.
00:42:07
Well, we're going to find out. So wiper.
00:42:09
So, I just want you guys I don't see
you on YouTube later voting in the poll.
00:42:12
I don't want to show you the results.
00:42:14
We've already made up a few 100 bots.
00:42:16
Help me out here.
00:42:17
Okay, so we know which of the bases
that Chris would like.
00:42:21
Yeah, for sure.
00:42:22
The woodland with that rear
wiper. Absolutely.
00:42:23
So that's going to do it for this episode
of Talking Cars on the Beezy woodland.
00:42:26
This was produced by David Abrams
00:42:28
and it was shot and edited by Andrew
Blease and Anatoly Chomsky.
00:42:31
So I want to
thank them for all their efforts.
00:42:33
And if you're watching on YouTube, we have
recently added a fundraiser button.
00:42:36
What that is, is it's a place
where you can choose to contribute
00:42:39
and to help us out. We are a nonprofit.
Here are Consumer Reports.
00:42:42
And, you know,
the world is an expensive place
00:42:44
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00:42:45
So if you know
you want to help out as a viewer
00:42:47
and you can,
we certainly do appreciate it.
00:42:50
It is, it's more helpful than I think
people actually know.
00:42:53
As always,
check the show notes down below.
00:42:56
There's links to all the stuff
we've talked about.
00:42:57
If you want to learn more about that,
00:42:59
don't forget the poll
that Dave is going to put up on YouTube.
00:43:01
And to get your questions,
00:43:02
possibly on the show
and to be answered by, one of us,
00:43:06
send them to talking cars at Consumer
Talk, talking cars@consumer.org.
00:43:10
That is the new email address
to get your question on the show
00:43:13
and possibly have Dave send you a shirt
or something to that effect.
00:43:17
And as always, thank you for watching
and talking cars with us.
00:43:20
We'll see you next week.