On this week's episode, we share our first impressions of the 2026 Toyota RAV4 PHEV and explore whether the plug-in hybrid is worth its sizable price premium. With up to 54 miles of electric range, 324 horsepower, impressive fuel economy, and no EV range anxiety, it may be the most versatile RAV4 yet—but it still has a few frustrating compromises. Plus, we answer an audience question about whether a reliable, high-mileage vehicle is a smart choice for a teen driver.
Join CR at https://CR.org/joinviaYT to access our comprehensive ratings for items you use every day. CR is a mission-driven, independent, nonprofit organization.
SHOW NOTES
-----------------------------------
0:00 - Intro
0:37 Overview: 2026 Toyota RAV4 Plug-In Hybrid
1:23 Is the PHEV Worth It?
6:14 Electric Range and Efficiency
9:31 Charging at Home
13:07 Ride and Handling
15:36 Acceleration and Power
19:15 Controls and Technology
27:02 Interior and Comfort
31:59 Reliability
35:45 Final Verdict
42:43 Viewer Question: Are High-Mileage Cars Safe for Teens?
----------------------------------
Test Results: 2026 Toyota RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/toyota/rav4-plug-in-hybrid/2026/overview/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
First Drive: 2026 Toyota RAV4 PHEV Is Quick, Efficient, and Packed with Useful Tech
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/2026-toyota-rav4-phev-review-a1016340226/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
Most and Least Satisfying Hybrids, Plug-In Hybrids, and EVs
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/most-and-least-satisfying-electric-vehicles-and-hybrids-a2825600877/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
Which Brands Make the Best Cars?
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/cars-driving/which-car-brands-make-the-best-vehicles-a6159221985/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
Who Makes the Most Reliable New Cars?
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
Find an Efficient Vehicle That's Right for You
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/buying-guide/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
Safest Car Brands Ranked by CR's Safety Verdict
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-safety/safest-car-brands-a1065426408/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
How Car Brands Stack Up on Repair Costs
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-maintenance/the-cost-of-car-ownership-a1854979198/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
Best Used Cars and SUVs Under 10K
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/best-used-cars-suvs-under-10000-dollars-a8966344858/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
-----------------------------------
Consumer Reports experts: Jon Linkov, Jake Fisher, Alex George
00:00:00
If you're Talking Car fan and want to see
the Consumer Reports test track in person?
00:00:04
Here's your chance.
00:00:05
On October 17th, Consumer Reports
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00:00:09
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00:00:12
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00:00:14
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00:00:18
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00:00:22
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00:00:36
Hey, everyone.
00:00:37
Welcome back to the podcast.
I'm John Linkov. I'm Jake Fisher.
00:00:39
I'm Alex George.
00:00:40
And today
00:00:41
we're going to talk about one
00:00:42
of the most popular vehicles in America,
the Toyota Rav4.
00:00:45
This version is the plug in hybrid
which is now called the Rav4 PHEV.
00:00:49
You may remember it as its prior name.
00:00:50
The Rav4 Prime very popular.
00:00:53
There are three really key things
about the Rav4 plug in.
00:00:56
So range.
00:00:57
So how far can it go?
00:00:58
Both gas, but really on electric price.
00:01:01
What's it going to cost me
to get into this.
00:01:03
And is it a Toyota through and through.
00:01:05
Pretty much from reliability
to plasticky interior kind of is.
00:01:09
Some of the details on what the Rav4
00:01:12
is has 324 horsepower
combined from the engine electric motors,
00:01:16
which is up 22 horsepower from the Prime,
and now
00:01:19
all Rav4's, including the Prime in Pierre,
which had it before.
00:01:23
They get standard blind spot warning
and standard rear cross-traffic warning.
00:01:26
Before that wasn't on every version.
00:01:29
So let's jump into it.
00:01:31
Jake does a plug in hybrid, particularly
the Rav4 plug in hybrid
00:01:35
makes sense for everyone.
00:01:37
Does that make sense for everybody?
00:01:38
But it certainly makes sense
for some people.
00:01:40
And it's funny
you say he's like, oh, we jumped.
00:01:42
You know, the Rav4, a very popular car,
but it's like not necessarily
00:01:45
a popular version of. Yeah, right. Yes.
00:01:47
So it's kind of like the least
00:01:50
popular version of powertrain right now,
which is these plug in hybrids.
00:01:53
There's not a whole lot of them.
00:01:55
But the most popular vehicle but popular
00:01:58
among compact SUV is plug ins.
00:02:01
Yeah.
00:02:02
I mean, they're more and more available,
00:02:03
but but not a whole
lot of people are buying these.
00:02:05
And and part of it is it's it's
00:02:07
they're very confusing
and and it's the question that you pose.
00:02:10
Does this make sense.
00:02:11
So I mean you look at the price
penalty right.
00:02:14
So it's certainly cost more.
00:02:15
It's about it trim line to trim line.
00:02:18
It's you're paying about $6 extra
in order to get this plug in hybrid
00:02:22
version of this vehicle
right over the Rav4 hybrid
00:02:25
itself, over and over,
which is yeah, which is a good deal
00:02:29
efficient vehicle.
00:02:30
And does that make sense now?
00:02:33
Maybe it used to I mean, we used to be
like incentives, right.
00:02:36
There's $7 incentive.
00:02:38
Suddenly this is cheaper, right?
00:02:40
I mean, it's paying for itself immediately
or so. Yeah.
00:02:42
And there was a time like we saw this
with like the, the Toyota Prius Prime
00:02:46
that everyone's buying.
00:02:47
There's not even if you don't even plug it
00:02:49
in, it's cheaper out the door
because of those SUVs gone away.
00:02:53
So now the question is does it make sense?
00:02:56
And we were talking about this before.
00:02:57
And the last time we were talking
about the, the, the plug in hybrid
00:03:01
extravaganza episode that we did where
we talked a lot about plug in hybrids.
00:03:04
And, and I created this spreadsheet
where you could calculate
00:03:08
how much money is going to save
or cost you with plug in hybrids.
00:03:12
Not doing that again,
because what was interesting is
00:03:15
we actually have
that information on our site.
00:03:19
So you can go on to our site and
you could go and compare these vehicles,
00:03:22
and you can put in exactly
00:03:24
what you're paying for electricity,
exactly what you're paying for gasoline,
00:03:27
and see if it makes sense for you
based on how much you drive.
00:03:31
The truth is,
00:03:32
it all depends on how much you're driving,
and it depends on where you live.
00:03:36
So, you know, we're here in Connecticut
and electricity prices
00:03:40
$0.30
I just checked $0.30 per kilowatt hour.
00:03:42
Expensive is the average
A compared to the rest of the country.
00:03:46
Our gas prices aren't crazy expensive now,
or whether they're crazy expensive,
00:03:50
but not as crazy as other places.
00:03:52
The $4 a gallon.
00:03:52
You see that in a lot of other states
down the coast.
00:03:55
So, so, so for us here to Penn,
00:03:58
you know, it's
not a huge savings in terms of cost.
00:04:02
But if you live out West
where it might be $6 a gallon,
00:04:06
if you're in like California
or Seattle or something like that,
00:04:10
and you do have off peak
pricing for your electricity,
00:04:13
you could look at the numbers yourself
00:04:15
and you could go in
everything you could see.
00:04:16
You might be saving
$1 in gasoline cost every year,
00:04:21
depending on what your situation is.
00:04:22
Oh, certainly.
And then it makes a whole lot of sense.
00:04:24
Yeah, it's basically New England
and Hawaii are the two places, right.
00:04:28
Try and break him.
00:04:29
Right. But yeah.
00:04:30
Otherwise it's yeah, there's
some real value to something like that.
00:04:32
And to like,
00:04:33
who does this actually apply to
and who would take advantage
00:04:35
as I was curious about this,
because I thought the same thing
00:04:38
about the least popular of the term
of the most popular car out there.
00:04:43
So I looked at like, what, the percent
I looked up,
00:04:45
what the percentages was of people
who bought the
00:04:47
plug in version versus
the other two versions go back to 20.
00:04:51
So that's another thing I realized in 2020
when this came, the Prime
00:04:54
first came out. It was
I think it was the summer of Covid.
00:04:57
Basically it was, chip shortages,
all these other constraints
00:05:01
that were going around it.
00:05:01
So it was this kind of in demand
car constrained
00:05:04
a little bit by the supply chain stuff
that was affecting everywhere.
00:05:06
So didn't quite get the debut that
I think it probably would have otherwise.
00:05:10
Right, right.
00:05:11
But even so, even then it was
I think it was less than 1%,
00:05:15
it was creeping up and the other two,
the gas and the regular hybrids
00:05:18
were kind of adjusting.
00:05:19
As you would
expect, gas was very popular in 2020.
00:05:21
Then that slowly shifted to the hybrid,
and then, all the way up to 2024 is
00:05:27
the number that I found
00:05:28
was 8.3% were buying the price
and the plug in 17.7, so far.
00:05:32
And, you know, for 2025 for the data.
00:05:34
So never more than like
00:05:35
10% of anybody who's buying a Rav4
is buying this plug in one.
00:05:38
Yeah.
00:05:38
My sense though
00:05:39
is that anybody who has one
with this functionality kind of loves it.
00:05:43
Like just from seeing everything online
00:05:44
and like what
the functionality comes with it.
00:05:46
There's some real interest in this
among the people who this suits well.
00:05:49
What I like about that is too,
it's it's not just about the price.
00:05:53
I mean, look,
you can look at like electric cars, right?
00:05:56
And the people who, you know, the early
00:05:57
adopters buying, you know,
you know, Tesla model S's at $100.
00:06:01
They weren't necessarily
doing to save money,
00:06:03
but they were getting that incentive.
00:06:05
It's still it's a lot of money.
00:06:08
So so
I mean you are also changing the way,
00:06:11
you know,
you're not going to the gas station.
00:06:12
You were also using electricity.
00:06:14
And depending
where that electricity comes from,
00:06:16
you know, that could be much better
for the environment.
00:06:18
And what's interesting too about this,
00:06:20
and again, I'm going back to the podcast
that we did about plug in hybrids.
00:06:24
There's all different
types of plug in hybrids.
00:06:26
They're all over the map.
00:06:27
I mean there's ones where you kind of like
every time you're merging
00:06:31
or every time you're going up a hill,
the engines pop.
00:06:33
And I'm sure this,
this thing has some serious like
00:06:37
it's got power,
but it stays in the battery
00:06:39
and it stays on the battery thing
you talked about.
00:06:41
We've talked about compliance hybrids
before.
00:06:43
You know, Audi had a Q5 plug in hybrid.
00:06:45
You know like how many miles under 20
maybe.
00:06:48
You know it's totally compliant.
00:06:50
But then you get real ones.
00:06:52
And I mean look at the range
range for this Rav4 plug a Chevy.
00:06:56
The SSC gets 40 miles per gallon
combined 52 mile electric range.
00:07:01
Same with the SE
which has a 54 mile, electric range.
00:07:04
The woodland version, 37 miles per gallon
combined 49 mile range,
00:07:08
same as the GR sport.
00:07:09
49 mile range with 36 combined.
00:07:12
All EPA numbers not see our tests
but yeah, those those are
00:07:16
they're not a significant drop off
from the Rav4 hybrid
00:07:20
which gets between 38 and 43 combined.
00:07:23
Again depends on EPA numbers.
00:07:25
And that's a front wheel drive version.
It gets 43.
00:07:28
So not a huge penalty.
00:07:29
But if you stay you could drive 50 miles.
00:07:32
You're staying in it unless you're people
every day are going to be able
00:07:36
to drive this vehicle
like an electric car,
00:07:38
have an electric car experience,
have that silence, have that, not
00:07:42
using any gasoline again, most people
are not spending more than 50 miles a day.
00:07:47
But then the always the problem with,
you know, the biggest reason why we hear
00:07:50
why I'm not going to electric car,
but what if I have to.
00:07:53
Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
00:07:54
Oh no I'm getting 38 miles per gallon.
Right, right.
00:07:56
I mean, that's
not the worst thing you could do, really.
00:07:59
I mean, the one it stays true in that
you do have to plug it in.
00:08:03
I mean, you're, you're paying
a $7 premium, even if you're saving
00:08:06
two grand a year on the plug
in versus a hybrid, etc.,
00:08:11
if you're just driving around carrying
that extra battery, that's kind of silly.
00:08:13
Well, and the the issue there
is kind of like, you know, electric cars.
00:08:18
It's like, oh, the convenience.
I never have to go to a gas station.
00:08:20
Right.
00:08:20
Well, you know, but like you kind of
have to plug it in every time you go.
00:08:24
Sure. Go home.
00:08:25
I mean, I wish, you know,
what's interesting about what
00:08:27
kind of the American auto
industry is like, kind of.
00:08:29
We kind of jumped maybe too far like this,
maybe have been this intermediate step
00:08:33
that we never.
00:08:33
Well, well, with everything in general.
00:08:36
Are we just like, my car is here,
00:08:37
but but it's like there's a way
you could optimize for this.
00:08:41
Yeah.
00:08:41
And what I mean by that is
I imagine if instead of,
00:08:46
you know, we you look at electric cars
where they're, you know, working on their,
00:08:49
you know, their door handle technology
or self-driving technology,
00:08:52
what if they worked in technology?
00:08:54
Then when you pull into your garage,
it starts charging. Yeah.
00:08:57
You know, I mean, whether or not inductive
charging or maybe it's inductive
00:09:00
or maybe like with all of this,
like AI and and automation
00:09:04
and robotics, they can figure out
how to connect the plug to my car.
00:09:08
So I just it's
I don't even think about it.
00:09:11
I go home, it's charging, I go back.
00:09:13
It's a seamless thing that everyone talks
about
00:09:15
with their, with their,
their, their phone for the key.
00:09:18
And, you know,
you're connecting your phone
00:09:20
for the experience with the my Blah app,
you know, seamless.
00:09:23
Why can't we have a seamless charging.
00:09:25
But you have to do it
every time in terms of charging. So
00:09:29
do you have to put in a home charger.
00:09:31
And Alex, I think you did a, you know, a
anecdotal experiment to see if you really
00:09:36
did need to charge it on 110
or if you have to get a level two charger.
00:09:40
Yeah. So I have a level two at my house.
00:09:42
But I was curious if you could get
the previous plug in hybrids.
00:09:46
I've tried.
00:09:47
I thought it was always pretty cool.
00:09:48
They didn't have to do the because my case
a thousand bucks to have a level two,
00:09:52
you know, to get a two 40 volt
00:09:53
going out to your garage
and to charge it up like that.
00:09:55
My experience was in line with, I think
it's this and this is what it seems like.
00:10:00
Other people got
00:10:01
came home from the office
seven, 730, plugged it in by about 7 a.m.
00:10:05
the next day it was ready.
00:10:06
So like, it went from maybe
2% to like just below 100%,
00:10:11
12 hours, 11.5 hours,
something like that.
00:10:13
Yeah. If that is like your routine.
00:10:15
And again, you know, like you were saying,
the average
00:10:18
American drives,
I think it was 31.1 miles a day.
00:10:22
That's your routine.
00:10:22
And like, you do a round trip and you,
00:10:25
you know, you can plug it in at night
like that.
00:10:27
That's great.
00:10:27
And if you're even shorter
and you can just do a
00:10:29
week's worth of errands
and you're just plugging in.
00:10:31
Oh, and not having to, you know,
you don't have to. And you could buy it.
00:10:34
You could buy a second,
you know, portable charge bag
00:10:38
for a few hundred bucks
instead of a thousand plus.
00:10:41
And you can carry that with you
when you drive,
00:10:42
so you don't even have to unplug it
from the wall like you could have one.
00:10:45
It just stays in your house.
00:10:46
And when you go visit
someone else, you can plug into theirs.
00:10:49
Yeah. You know, and top it off
if you don't have a charger, etc..
00:10:51
Yeah.
And it's it's different for everybody.
00:10:54
And we,
00:10:54
we went through this
when a lot of us installed
00:10:56
you know chargers
and like maybe it's straightforward
00:10:58
but maybe your whole house
has to get rewired for it.
00:11:01
Who knows. It could be very expensive.
00:11:03
So to not have to worry about that
is is really kind of nice.
00:11:06
Again, it's it's kind of like the
00:11:08
you know, it's a, it's a gateway
drug towards electrification
00:11:10
as opposed to completely
changing your life around it.
00:11:12
Well, I mean, I'm going to bounce over
to range and stuff like that, but
00:11:16
it's some of the things we talked about
when hybrids were really here.
00:11:20
Preposterous.
00:11:21
But when hybrids were in their infancy
and it's like some parts of the country
00:11:24
might be electric eventually
because of hydro charging,
00:11:27
you know, hydro electric, some places,
00:11:29
huge spaces, they're not going to be great
for electric.
00:11:32
They're going to be hybrid.
They're going to be a gas.
00:11:33
They might be diesel. You know, it's
00:11:36
a jumping whole hog into one thing
00:11:39
is is not always great,
especially to your point
00:11:41
leapfrogging other things to go to
all electric fold done.
00:11:46
Get rid of gas.
00:11:47
Maybe not the best choice
at adding functionality, adding things.
00:11:51
Good.
00:11:52
Yeah, but when you take something away
and take away that that ability
00:11:55
and yeah, it's all different.
00:11:56
Again,
the infrastructure is a big deal, right?
00:11:58
So I mean, I recently drove with we drove
from Connecticut out to Seattle and
00:12:03
North Dakota and like I mean,
I was sweating just trying to, you know,
00:12:07
make sure I filled the gas up but not
because there was so much open expanse.
00:12:11
But I mean,
00:12:13
again,
not everyone's driving across the country,
00:12:15
so that wouldn't be a good application
for an electric car, perhaps,
00:12:18
but I wouldn't sweat it at all with this,
which is Rav4 plug in hybrid.
00:12:21
Yeah, that's the electric
car thing is that it's for 98%
00:12:25
of like the reality of 98%
of driving works just fine.
00:12:28
Again,
as long as you can charge at home. Yeah.
00:12:30
But for that 2% it really matters.
00:12:32
Like you're in trouble.
00:12:33
You are rerouting your vacation.
A road trip takes you.
00:12:36
Yeah. Is dependent. Not entirely.
00:12:38
But yeah, that the problem.
00:12:40
What you get out of this
is to never have to worry about that 2%.
00:12:43
It's interesting,
00:12:44
like the first generation of electric cars
that we really got me for before Tesla.
00:12:48
And then that kind of hit, that hit
it was these compliance cars.
00:12:52
We talked about where they had very short
range and they were inexpensive.
00:12:55
And and this 50 mile range isn't that
far away from what those were then.
00:13:00
The first Nissan Leaf wasn't a massive,
you know, range anyway.
00:13:05
Yeah, it's all a toy.
00:13:06
So let's get into driving.
00:13:08
Let's get into driving experience.
00:13:09
To your point, 575 miles of driving range
with a full tank and a full battery.
00:13:13
According to Toyota.
00:13:14
I mean, that's just that is that's crazy.
00:13:17
You know, that that's like a DC and back
almost trip, you know, or,
00:13:21
you know, super close to that.
00:13:22
Ours has 20 inch wheels.
00:13:25
Little bit firm little not,
00:13:27
you know little little balance
between compliance and firmness.
00:13:29
You know.
00:13:30
So the Rav4 is not
00:13:31
and he isn't really any more a sporty SUV
maybe early in its infancy.
00:13:35
And if it was a sportier one. Yeah.
00:13:38
I mean, I mean, it's here's
the thing about the Rav4,
00:13:41
I mean, like, this isn't
really the draw about it, right?
00:13:44
I mean, you're looking for something
that has a really engaging
00:13:46
driving experience, you know,
and you're looking for a small SUV.
00:13:48
Maybe you're looking at a Mazda.
00:13:50
I almost like this
car isn't about the driving experience.
00:13:53
You know,
this isn't about the interior. Sure.
00:13:55
You know, it's about really just
you know what it does.
00:13:58
Nobody seems to be able to do this
in terms of the efficiency,
00:14:02
in terms of in terms of the reliability,
getting all that stuff.
00:14:06
So it's it's kind of tough.
00:14:07
I mean, it drives decent, goes well.
00:14:10
I mean, I think the
00:14:11
the ride of this generation on the Rav4
is definitely improved a bit.
00:14:15
The weight helps it a little bit.
The battery weight help.
00:14:17
That's right.
Despite having having the wheels.
00:14:20
But you know, it's almost like an aside.
00:14:23
It's like is a good enough
00:14:26
probably true.
00:14:27
True.
00:14:27
I mean, you know, so out at
00:14:29
some of the things that we said
in our first drivers that it, it,
00:14:31
you know, not much body roll,
you know, good heft in the steering,
00:14:34
which is kind of a little different
00:14:35
from what we would talk about
normally with a Rav4.
00:14:38
Right.
00:14:38
The one that I kept,
I pay attention to it.
00:14:41
This one specifically,
this is it's 20 inch wheels on this one.
00:14:44
I think a lot of the time
when we advise people
00:14:45
and even just anecdotally
from helping other people buy cars,
00:14:48
when you're looking at which trim to get,
that's the thing always to check.
00:14:51
It's like, how big are the wheels?
00:14:52
And are they going to affect the ride
in an adverse way?
00:14:55
If you're trying to get the heated
steering wheel,
00:14:56
are you going to compromise the ride
in some particular way?
00:14:58
Yeah, this, at least in my experience,
does not seem to have that problem.
00:15:01
The ride was just fine.
00:15:02
And as I think you know,
we said for a long time
00:15:05
that the extra weight does help it feel
planted, feel smooth over everything.
00:15:08
I agree, I think it's you know,
that's not the reason that,
00:15:10
you're buying something like this.
00:15:11
I was thinking that the only other car
I can think of
00:15:14
that was getting a hybrid
that could do 50 miles on all electric.
00:15:17
Is a Polestar one
or that one from like 2020.
00:15:21
It was like, try to forget.
00:15:22
Yeah. Right. Yeah.
00:15:23
Like that.
00:15:24
I guess there was
that was part of the intent for that one.
00:15:26
But, no, this is not, this is not that.
00:15:28
So the drive was just it's fine.
00:15:29
It's it's it's very competent.
00:15:31
Yeah. Yeah it is.
00:15:32
And there's no which is,
which isn't backhanded praise.
00:15:35
It's just fine. It's
just what it is. Yeah, yeah.
00:15:37
But one of the.
00:15:38
So what it's not like
or what you were saying, like what people
00:15:41
don't necessarily
think about it is you commented on Alex
00:15:44
the the quickness that it's just
and I remember this from the prime we had.
00:15:48
And I remember picking that up
because I ended up buying that,
00:15:50
that for the test program.
00:15:52
Just point out of the parking lot
is how quick it was.
00:15:54
And this one's even more powerful.
00:15:55
Yeah. It's incorrect.
00:15:56
I this was even the case in the first one
where I just I know we're going to
00:16:00
we do instrument tests for 0
to 60 independently verify everything.
00:16:03
Very amateur testing.
00:16:04
Just it was very close to five seconds
or a 60 every single time I tried it.
00:16:09
That is that feels incredible.
00:16:10
And there's like some
00:16:11
you get a little joy out of like
it's a Rav4 that's doing this.
00:16:15
This is faster than any Rav4 really
like should be.
00:16:19
I mean, it's so crazy.
00:16:21
And look, I mean like, I get it,
you're not taking your Rav4
00:16:25
plug in hybrid to the to the
you know, the race track for pink slips.
00:16:28
Yeah.
00:16:29
You're not doing quarter
mile drag strips with this car.
00:16:31
But yeah it is fast.
00:16:33
I think the flip side is it.
00:16:35
And there's two ways to look at power
right.
00:16:36
One way is like it is really fast.
00:16:38
They really it's
I mean it's like it's like a sports car
00:16:41
and they're like the other way to look at
it is, is is effortless.
00:16:45
And quietness.
00:16:47
And I think this is really where power.
00:16:50
That's how I think I certainly when I'm
driving car, I'm thinking about power,
00:16:54
you know, and
and if you think about like the,
00:16:56
you know, base like you
look at the non-hybrid, the four cylinder
00:17:00
with a CVT that we see at all these things
when it's not powerful.
00:17:03
What do you hear. Yeah.
00:17:05
You know.
00:17:05
Yeah. Just straining of an engine.
00:17:07
There's no straining here.
00:17:08
And it's not it's not racing
either. It's merging.
00:17:10
It's just driving.
00:17:12
You know I mean I know
that's the stereotype of like,
00:17:15
no, we're we're rays blah.
00:17:17
Let's show this, you know.
00:17:19
No, no, it's merging onto the highway.
00:17:21
It's if you have to pass
and whatever it is, it's just effortless.
00:17:24
It's you do not hear that straining.
00:17:26
You do not need to pop the engine on
if you're on electric mode.
00:17:30
And then even when the hybrid goes on,
it's like it's quiet.
00:17:33
So anybody who's like,
you know, CVT or c CVT,
00:17:37
I think get a bad name
because they're usually connected
00:17:39
to an underpowered powertrain
where you hear that strain,
00:17:42
you're not hearing that strain.
00:17:43
This is an effortless powertrain.
00:17:45
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Zero issues
and any merging any of that.
00:17:47
And that's one thing
that makes it kind of hard to
00:17:50
if you've gotten used to an electric car
to give that up. Is that.
00:17:53
That's right. Work and everything. Yeah.
00:17:54
So if you are, you know, in the case
00:17:55
where you've gotten used to that, but
and you want to keep that
00:17:59
but also need the flexibility
that like the yeah they figure it out.
00:18:03
And again yeah the noise is not an issue
the way it has been in other ones. Yes.
00:18:06
Sometimes in some respects.
And maybe coming back to this,
00:18:10
this proves
like EVs are almost like over buying,
00:18:13
you know, because at the price point for
many EVs, you're getting a lot of vehicle,
00:18:17
you're getting the electric driving,
but you're getting without the anxiety
00:18:20
that a whole lot of
and not having to go land somewhere.
00:18:23
And all of a sudden you're like, wait,
00:18:25
how much am I paying at this roadside
charger?
00:18:27
Because I need to top up?
00:18:29
Well, and quite honestly, you're carrying
around a whole lot of lithium
00:18:32
ion battery that you probably aren't
even using in your daily routine.
00:18:36
I was looking at it like the, you know,
look at the Toyota.
00:18:37
Busy.
00:18:39
I mean, you know, you could look at this
like oh my god I have two powertrains.
00:18:42
I got a whole battery and
I got a transmission and I got an engine.
00:18:45
It's actually just about on par
with the busy in terms of weight.
00:18:49
It weighs about the same.
00:18:50
So because it's got such a smaller battery
right.
00:18:53
And it's got all this things,
it's it's you you have the weight. Sure.
00:18:56
It's heavier than a regular
00:18:57
or hybrid, but electric, it's about
but it it would weigh.
00:19:01
But without having a freak out, without
having you get to the 200 mile mark.
00:19:05
Exactly.
00:19:05
And rely on the infrastructure
that still isn't out there
00:19:08
when you're driving this out.
00:19:10
200 miles, you know you got to be in it.
00:19:12
So, Alex, you found something interesting,
in the interior anyway.
00:19:16
But, like, tell it tell us about
the controls, because it's a new system.
00:19:20
It's a slightly updated system for Toyota.
Yeah.
00:19:23
Toyota's always interesting
because they update so incrementally
00:19:25
and so infrequently
that you're always curious
00:19:27
to see what they decide to keep
and not keep.
00:19:30
Or to upgrade and not upgrade.
00:19:32
So the one of the differentiators
00:19:34
for the one that we have is
it's got larger screen inside of the,
00:19:37
when you have Apple CarPlay turned
on, you get a pretty satisfied.
00:19:40
I think it's three by five in terms of
apps that you can access on there.
00:19:43
It's really it is pleasant that way.
00:19:45
And then you have the dashboard,
which is the inside, slash instrument
00:19:48
panel, which is your other screen
on there, all worked presets, actually.
00:19:52
I think we'll get into the controls
a little bit.
00:19:54
Besides that,
there was a compared to other cars
00:19:58
like this, there's a little bit
less flexibility in terms of like,
00:20:01
for example,
one thing that I wished I could do that
00:20:03
I tried pretty hard,
I could couldn't figure out how to do
00:20:05
is get the navigation in the instrument
panel.
00:20:07
So, so you could be looking at the map
basically in your route
00:20:11
as opposed to just on the center screen.
00:20:13
Otherwise,
I mean, otherwise no real complaints.
00:20:16
But there was a, you know,
00:20:19
if you look in there, there's some lights
that look like an old fashioned, like,
00:20:22
you know,
00:20:22
the headlights, light indicator
and all that, whereas on newer cars
00:20:25
it will have like, you know, it's
a little graphic or something like that.
00:20:28
Sure.
00:20:28
It's funny, like seeing that,
00:20:29
that comparison of how they,
the carry over versus totally redesigned.
00:20:34
Yeah. Yeah. So it's, I mean, it's,
00:20:37
absolutely not nearly as high tech
as some, you know,
00:20:39
Rivian or Tesla or anything like that.
00:20:41
But practically speaking,
it seemed, it seemed just fine,
00:20:43
except for, like,
a little bit of inflexibility
00:20:45
that I missed on,
some of the competitors.
00:20:47
Yeah, I totally agree.
00:20:49
I think it's it's very functional,
which is actually what you want.
00:20:51
And controls, you know, so, so it's it's.
00:20:55
Yeah, it's kind of
and I think Toyota kind of, you know,
00:20:58
they kind of inch along which is,
which helps the reliability and helps us.
00:21:02
So you can understand how
to use the vehicle and stuff like that.
00:21:04
The one area you know, you look at again
where, where,
00:21:07
you know, there's a lot of innovation,
you know, and stuff like that.
00:21:09
And different
car companies are doing things.
00:21:11
It's the it's the at the center cubby,
cubby, this, this is where I think Toyota
00:21:15
really kind of puts all their engineering
and like all of their.
00:21:18
Yeah.
00:21:18
Is there a fourth or fifth hinge
now on the central hub?
00:21:21
Exactly.
00:21:22
And for those who like, have had Toyota's
over the years or Lexus over the years,
00:21:26
there's always a new way to open up the
the center cubby.
00:21:29
Right.
00:21:29
You know, it's like, oh,
it could open on the left
00:21:31
and open the right and this one go
backwards or you can take the thing off.
00:21:35
Yeah. Now.
So you could flip it upside down.
00:21:37
I mean like the, the, the center cubby
bean technology is very impressive
00:21:42
I think. And I think if they're
going to go with the skunkworks division.
00:21:45
Yeah, exactly.
00:21:46
At least I can still get in
and out of the car.
00:21:48
You know, don't mess with my door handles.
But you could mess with the cubby.
00:21:51
Yeah.
00:21:51
Well, I mean, to the point of, of of the,
the controls,
00:21:54
some of the things that we said
in our first drive,
00:21:57
the infotainment system size, pairing
issues, I mean, I think it's, it's, it's
00:22:01
we've seen it's a universal Toyota
fitting with a bunch of Toyota's.
00:22:04
Yeah.
00:22:04
And I sympathize to a point
because, you know, you're talking
00:22:07
OS with the the phone manufacturer.
00:22:10
You're talking about whomever is building
the operating system for the car.
00:22:14
They're not going to, you know, dovetail
their is but our Android owners,
00:22:19
or the Android owners amongst our staff
really said lots of pairing issues.
00:22:23
Well and and iPhone too.
00:22:25
And and and yes I sympathize
because yeah it is it is right.
00:22:29
There's so many different things.
00:22:30
But it's like why are
some other automakers are able to it?
00:22:34
It's the big question why?
00:22:35
Why can I get into my Mazda,
the Mazda CX five and plop the phone
00:22:39
in and it finds John Lenkov?
00:22:40
And then I get another car, I'm
driving down the street
00:22:42
and I'm
this and I have to stop and unpair.
00:22:44
Yeah, absolutely been that irresponsible
driver where like, why the why?
00:22:47
And then looking down
and you're trying to get it to work.
00:22:50
Well the, the
00:22:51
interesting thing about Turner too is like
they were one of the very last ones
00:22:54
to put in CarPlay. Yeah.
00:22:56
And like now I think I understand why.
00:22:58
Sure, they don't want to be saddled
with these issues, but there's a,
00:23:01
there's a lot of there's a lot of tech
tech blogs out there just like,
00:23:03
you know, like stop, stop doing airplay,
you know, doing it over the air.
00:23:07
Just plug the thing in.
00:23:08
It'll charge you.
00:23:09
Don't worry
about the because Toyota charging pads.
00:23:11
I could do a whole rant on why.
00:23:14
I'm sure there's some phone they charge.
00:23:15
I not mind, but the phone's this big
and you're like slotted in
00:23:20
so it can't slide at all
00:23:21
because the minute you, like hit a bump,
the thing slides
00:23:23
and all of a sudden I hear going
clang, clang, clang, clang.
00:23:25
Is it trying to not know
Toyota and Subaru?
00:23:28
Please fix the car.
00:23:31
The quick charge it.
00:23:32
Fix the charging pads while you're at to
if they could.
00:23:35
I used to do this.
00:23:36
They would call it
because basically, yes,
00:23:38
while you're doing that get really hot,
it gets brutally hot.
00:23:41
And, we were driving.
00:23:43
Yeah, I was driving in
August up here in the northeast.
00:23:45
And it would do the message of it's going
to call charging until the temperature.
00:23:50
Yeah. Yeah.
00:23:52
How's that? So Simon doing it.
00:23:54
Yeah. So I mean, doing what
you're asking it to do in that capacity.
00:23:56
Well, I mean, I against the side.
00:23:58
We're taking a little tangent,
but I remember driving at one point
00:24:00
and using Waze or using Google Maps
or whatever, and the phone overheated,
00:24:04
so it shut down.
00:24:05
So it goes away.
00:24:06
Just I was like,
I have no idea where you're going.
00:24:09
So you're driving like,
oh, now I got to stop and figure out again
00:24:12
at First World Problem.
00:24:14
But one of those things is just like not
thought of.
00:24:16
My time was great to have a charging pad.
00:24:18
So great.
00:24:19
My favorite is when the wireless wireless
charging the screen locks up,
00:24:24
so you're waiting for a turn
and they're like, keep going straight.
00:24:27
I, I had a friend
actually miss this flight
00:24:30
because he was waiting for a turn
and it just kept it was
00:24:33
it was locked on straight.
00:24:34
It was like,
oh I still have 80 miles to go.
00:24:37
Oh that's like,
oh no, that's that's not good.
00:24:40
One other thing.
00:24:40
Touchscreen controls for like seat heaters
and the steering wheel heater.
00:24:44
It's it's in the screen.
00:24:46
It's a menu. It's
this is a tap. It's a tap to tap.
00:24:49
And yeah I'm kind of wondering
if between software glitches
00:24:52
I'm not saying Toyota only or even Toyota
00:24:55
between software glitches
and just headaches and in satisfaction
00:24:58
if it's really worth the money
to not have the buttons, you know,
00:25:02
oh, the amount they save by the amount
you see me by not doing it.
00:25:05
I don't even know if it's money
savings or whatever it is, but it's like,
00:25:09
stop chasing.
00:25:10
Yes to something because. Yeah, right.
Yeah.
00:25:14
There's this there's
this thirst for simplicity especially
00:25:17
you're buying a Rav4
because you want something functional.
00:25:20
And I can rely on it.
It's going to do what I want.
00:25:23
It's like, listen to your market. Totally.
00:25:26
So totally. Yeah.
00:25:27
I'm really the voice of dissent on this
where I agree with buttons much better.
00:25:32
Even the manufacturers are relenting
and saying, okay, you are right.
00:25:35
We're going to put some buttons
back in there and the Rav4 Prime case.
00:25:38
So I am of the school of 72 degrees
auto sync.
00:25:43
Yeah I think about it again.
00:25:44
That's fine.
00:25:44
I don't need to even, you know,
00:25:45
the ones that have the touchscreen
to adjust where the air is blowing.
00:25:49
That's fine as long as it's an auto.
00:25:51
This one did that pretty well
even to the ventilated seats.
00:25:54
If you set it on full auto
it will use the ambient touch.
00:25:57
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I looked
for a time for it to not get it correct.
00:26:01
It kind of did.
00:26:02
I think that's very fair.
00:26:04
So and yes,
we are seeing more cars with auto
00:26:08
and if they're doing a good job,
00:26:09
you know of of knowing when to put
the seat heaters on or the vents are on
00:26:13
and you know, and not everyone
likes to use auto, you know, for,
00:26:18
for climate control, a lot of people we,
we could do a whole episode on that.
00:26:22
Yeah. Yeah,
yeah. Door handles and auto climate.
00:26:24
Yeah.
00:26:24
But, but but you're absolutely right,
you know, work on that in you,
00:26:28
past like that.
00:26:29
And I'm past life. Absolutely.
I just want the sync button.
00:26:31
Yeah, I in every car, I just want the sync
button easily accessible.
00:26:35
Because.
00:26:36
Because you don't really care
about your passenger?
00:26:38
No, because my wife will get in the car
immediately.
00:26:40
Turn it down to 64.
00:26:41
Do you want a driver to cool the car off?
00:26:43
And I'm in a and I'm.
00:26:44
And then she, four miles later down
the road is already asleep on the trip.
00:26:47
So then I just won't be able to like to
sync like I win.
00:26:50
I do like I don't want it to go through
three menus to do that.
00:26:53
Not the kitchen kind,
but yes, yes, or the Ford kind.
00:26:57
It's so fitting in the car.
00:26:59
That's been another kind of let's,
00:27:01
let's just get into living in the car
and fit and finish.
00:27:04
We'll just combine those two
because how you fit and how it's
00:27:07
put fit and finished, fit fit, fit
and not not see what you did there.
00:27:10
Not the not the best.
00:27:11
Since this generation of Rav4
or even the previous generation
00:27:14
Rav4 was, was introduced. Yeah.
00:27:17
It's been useful,
actually, to have our fleet,
00:27:20
SR5, forerunner.
00:27:23
And because you can kind of having looking
at that back to back, you kind of see
00:27:27
that the, Toyota tendency
is now towards the chunky kind of,
00:27:31
you know,
you tell off roadie style for that.
00:27:34
And that is in this kind
of technological marvel of the Rav4,
00:27:37
which I totally think of as an off road
vehicle for Rav4 Prime.
00:27:40
Yes. You didn't go off roading up the Rock
Hill.
00:27:43
You've got any of the inches.
00:27:46
Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, that's
that's the design.
00:27:48
I think.
00:27:48
You know what we're getting now too
is yeah, the fit and,
00:27:52
what the services, you know,
the touch points as they're called.
00:27:54
But those feel like in this car,
00:27:56
not, you know, not as great
as I think they could be.
00:27:59
There's always this kind of, like, pull
and push between, like, styling and
00:28:05
and functionality and, like,
I always wonder if there's, like,
00:28:08
you just made one car and just lap
all the functionality when then style
00:28:13
or whatever comes after, like there's,
there's, there's people who want that.
00:28:17
Yeah. You know,
I mean you're up on top again.
00:28:20
You're I don't think you're buying
the Rav4 to be like to show off and easy
00:28:23
I it is a very functional again car
that does what you need it to do.
00:28:28
Well Tacoma tundra like I don't really
think it needs a lot of soft touch points.
00:28:33
Maybe just where your elbows are
because yeah, it's it's in theory now.
00:28:36
You know, pickup trucks
00:28:37
no longer are the same as they
were, say, 20 years ago. But,
00:28:42
you big knobs in gloves.
00:28:44
I think it's just a function.
00:28:45
It's function right there, you know, and
and they don't they follow it that way.
00:28:49
But it's like it carries over like, well,
everyone wants outdoorsy.
00:28:51
Everything outdoorsy is aggressive.
Everything is big.
00:28:54
And it just it's not working
and it's it's narrow flat.
00:28:59
See like that's
probably the worst part of the experience.
00:29:02
Yeah. Me not driving.
It's just kind of a living.
00:29:04
It's a bit narrow.
I mean again it's not horrible.
00:29:07
Go try it out and see if it fits you.
00:29:09
But it's like Mercedes CLA
for example as far as narrowness.
00:29:13
But yeah.
00:29:14
But yeah, I think, you know,
they tried to, you know,
00:29:17
kind of shape it a certain way
and do a few things.
00:29:20
And it's not perfect for function. Yeah.
00:29:23
That one specifically about the
where your knees rests.
00:29:25
Anybody who's considering
this goes go to a dealership.
00:29:28
And so
00:29:28
and there I was curious about
because I heard
00:29:30
a couple people around the office
say I do not fit in this,
00:29:32
and it was specifically
about where your knees fit.
00:29:34
And do they hit against the right.
00:29:36
And I took some measuring tape to see.
00:29:37
I was like, I think it was like 21in
or something like that.
00:29:41
Left a notebook in the car.
00:29:42
But versus like 20,
I think it was 24 or 25.
00:29:46
And like in, the Honda Passport,
not apples to apples, but like, yeah,
00:29:49
that came down to the Rav4,
I think it was, and the door, there's
00:29:52
this little protrusion around the handle
that goes right up to your knee.
00:29:55
So you end up inevitably sitting
kind of like that and,
00:29:59
you know, I'm not particularly tall.
00:30:00
511 but even then, and I think we talked
about as we sit the same way with our,
00:30:04
you know, kind of let our legs open up
a little bit. Yeah.
00:30:05
It's like NASCAR style.
00:30:07
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
00:30:08
But it, it was, it was enough
to get annoying after a longer drive.
00:30:13
And so it just
anybody should check that out.
00:30:15
Jake and I've been here,
but it no longer,
00:30:18
So how was it with putting in,
a kid in the back?
00:30:21
The car seat? Yeah.
00:30:23
The infernal rear facing car seat.
00:30:26
I it's I mean, the is so large
and so much space in there.
00:30:29
It worked out. It was fine.
00:30:31
How can something so small need something
so big?
00:30:34
It's crazy.
00:30:34
Like the amount of Emily, we get it.
00:30:36
It's if it's safety, I'm like, yeah.
00:30:38
Oh, completely unnecessary.
00:30:40
And I.
00:30:40
Yeah, I think it's the one that's
actually were for cars were for safety.
00:30:44
Let me just go on the record. Yes.
Yeah. Yes.
00:30:45
I was going to
just put them on some phone books.
00:30:47
But yeah if I can find one I guess yes.
00:30:50
Phone book.
00:30:51
Yeah. Yeah.
00:30:54
It was okay.
00:30:55
It's not like the accessibility in
the rear is not.
00:30:57
You have to duck down
and actually doing the, straps
00:31:01
for the latch system,
it's much more comfortable in other cars.
00:31:04
It's a little compact.
00:31:05
The doors don't open quite
as wide as I would have hoped for that.
00:31:08
That is a thing with the Rav4. Yeah.
00:31:09
The second the rear doors don't open
particularly, they're not 90 degree doors.
00:31:13
You know, there's a cut in from the wheel,
the wheel arch and such like that.
00:31:17
It's not.
00:31:17
Okay. So it's not just me.
00:31:19
I was wondering if that was, you know,
even the the,
00:31:22
degree to which they open didn't feel like
it was enough to really actually get in
00:31:25
and be able
to strap everything down the right way.
00:31:26
Yeah.
00:31:27
I know that was the thing in
00:31:28
to specifically Rav4, the, the like,
I just remember the last Rav4 as well.
00:31:32
It's just like when they went to that more
chunky off road body style.
00:31:35
Just something changed.
00:31:36
I don't know why.
00:31:37
But yeah,
I remember that as being an element of it.
00:31:40
Yeah. Yeah, she was in their front seats.
00:31:43
My wife and I were fine, but,
you know, if you're taking it in and out,
00:31:47
it would, you would want something
just a tad bigger to make it look
00:31:50
make a little bit easier. Sure, sure. So
00:31:54
one of the one of the key things
00:31:56
you're gonna you're going to a Toyota
and you're going to think reliable.
00:32:00
But as we have seen over
the last few years,
00:32:04
with the proliferation of plug in hybrids
as well as EVs,
00:32:09
plug ins, new dual
00:32:11
powertrains, lots of complexity,
not always most reliable.
00:32:14
But Jake, you're the you're
the reliability person at the table.
00:32:20
Toyota. Is they falling into that?
00:32:21
I have some of the averages and,
you know, the scores and stuff like that
00:32:24
for the model years.
00:32:25
But, you know, where do they
where do they fall?
00:32:28
Well, so, so so the one thing is
that we've seen is that electric vehicles
00:32:33
and plug in hybrids tend to be less
reliable than other vehicles.
00:32:37
Right. Hybrids
we don't see reliability issues.
00:32:40
And this is purely powertrain.
00:32:41
We're not getting into. We're just talking
about power door handles.
00:32:43
We're just talking about powertrains.
00:32:46
Well no we're not because
I mean, the thing is, is that the truth
00:32:49
is, is that electrics
and tend to have a lot of other stuff.
00:32:54
Oh, right.
00:32:55
They, they do have not just
powertrain issues because they're new,
00:33:00
but they have a lot of new technology
they're thrown on.
00:33:03
But we have seen that plug in hybrids
tend to almost have like I think about 80%
00:33:08
more problems than we've seen
in conventional vehicles on hybrids.
00:33:12
Why is that?
00:33:13
Well, part of it
is that there was a lot of plug in hybrids
00:33:16
from unreliable automakers such as,
00:33:19
like Jeep and,
but the other piece of it is,
00:33:24
which is kind of obvious,
is that you have all the stuff, right?
00:33:28
You've got your battery,
you've got a charger, you've got,
00:33:31
you got the transmission, you got
your engine, you got all the pieces.
00:33:35
So conventional wisdom would say that,
you know,
00:33:40
if there's problems with electrics
and there's problems with gas powered,
00:33:43
you got to plug in hybrids.
You got all the problems, right.
00:33:45
You get more. It's not a double negative.
They don't report.
00:33:48
They attract more things
that could go wrong.
00:33:50
Yeah.
00:33:51
But what's interesting about this
particular one
00:33:56
is that Toyota like nobody knows hybrids
like Toyota, right?
00:33:59
I mean, they've been producing the more
than a quarter of a century now.
00:34:02
And the truth is, is that this plug in
hybrid is not some brand new powertrain.
00:34:08
It is an evolution
of the hybrid powertrains
00:34:11
they've been doing since the late 90s.
00:34:13
And because of that, what we've seen
with the primes and with all of these,
00:34:17
Toyota, specifically Toyota Prius
plug in hybrids, we haven't seen problems.
00:34:21
We've seen them being very reliable.
00:34:23
So yes, plug in hybrids could be more
to go wrong, more complexity.
00:34:27
When it comes to Toyota plug in hybrids,
you probably have a good time.
00:34:31
I mean,
00:34:33
from our data, the
00:34:34
probably the worst worst is an average,
you know, average reliability.
00:34:38
You know, if you're
if you're if you want to choose a Rav4.
00:34:41
And I'm looking at also Rav4 hybrid
I threw that in there.
00:34:44
Like that's just stellar stellar
reliability.
00:34:47
You're not going wrong with that.
00:34:48
But Prime above average next Lexus
00:34:52
NX plug in average Prius Prime average.
00:34:55
Prius p PHEVs average.
00:34:58
Sorry.
The Prime was of average to above average.
00:35:00
So yeah, you know
solid reliability to that point.
00:35:03
They they're they evolve.
00:35:05
They they make small incremental changes
over time.
00:35:08
Yeah I mean you look at powertrain, right?
00:35:09
I mean, you know, again
we took a big jump to electric vehicles.
00:35:12
There's a lot of talk
now about the revs,
00:35:15
which are electric vehicles with
a generator that generates power for the,
00:35:19
there's a lot of different technologies.
00:35:20
I mean, we've done there's been diesels
along the way, and then turbochargers
00:35:25
have become, like, really ubiquitous for,
like, all the vehicles these days.
00:35:29
But but the hybrids, like, have
just kind of sold your long bite
00:35:34
and just kind of completely evolved
and stayed very, very reliable, solid.
00:35:39
So tend to like to ask this at the end of,
00:35:42
at the end of the, the car section
of it or the model section.
00:35:47
Alex, would you buy it?
00:35:48
If not, what would you get instead?
00:35:50
I don't think I'd buy it,
but there's a it's a tough decision.
00:35:54
I it's occurred to me
as I was driving here this morning, it's
00:35:57
one of the first responses we put this out
that we were talking about this
00:36:00
particular car.
00:36:01
I think the most common response
was $50 for a Rav4.
00:36:06
Same like same exact verbatim response
in 2020 when you even had the $7.
00:36:11
But I didn't take into it.
00:36:13
I think, especially this office
we've all known or been
00:36:16
somebody who has put, thousands
or tens of thousands of dollars
00:36:20
into a car that doesn't feel like
it should perhaps have all that.
00:36:23
If you've ever modified a car
or anything like that to the purpose
00:36:26
of making it faster,
or just because it does something cool,
00:36:30
this kind of has a little bit of that,
and we're like, I can just drive around
00:36:33
like an electric car for all this time.
00:36:36
The math of like, am I going to make back
the money I'm saving in gas
00:36:39
offsetting the what it was like either
how much is the difference?
00:36:43
$6, $600? Delta.
00:36:45
Yeah, you have to be driving
a really long time for that.
00:36:47
But if this if that particular coolness
appeals to you and it does to me,
00:36:51
then there's something to that.
00:36:52
The idea of having a something that can
do, you know, it'll go where I drive
00:36:56
an electric vehicle most of the time
and the idea of having something
00:36:59
that will never cash situation
where we have to think twice or have to,
00:37:03
you know,
it can do every single thing like that.
00:37:05
But for all your errands during the week,
it can be all electric,
00:37:08
like this is the one.
00:37:09
This is the car that I, as far as I can
tell, it does that the best.
00:37:11
And it if that is a thing that relates to
what your routine is like,
00:37:15
I think that's
the best choice for it. Jake.
00:37:19
I mean,
I guess there's a whole bunch of caveats.
00:37:21
If I was looking for a small SUV,
if I was blah, blah, blah, blah, if you're
00:37:24
if you're in that world and honestly,
I mean, it doesn't have to be 50 grand.
00:37:27
I mean, we we kind of had to,
00:37:29
you know, we bought,
you know, what was available at the time.
00:37:31
You could
certainly get them cheaper than this.
00:37:33
But but I am really absolutely blown away
by the powertrain I really am.
00:37:39
And you know, whether or not
this is in a Rav4 or for this is a car
00:37:43
or if this is an a larger SUV
like it is super.
00:37:48
I feel like it's
kind of like the best version
00:37:52
we have seen of a plug in hybrid.
00:37:55
I mean, you know, again, electric
driving experience for 50, 50 miles.
00:37:59
When that's done,
you have incredible fuel efficiency still.
00:38:02
So you do not see that
with with with competitors.
00:38:06
And it is just really kind of
like the next step.
00:38:10
So I don't know.
00:38:11
I mean, I think we're still going to see
very slow volumes with it, low volumes
00:38:15
with this.
00:38:15
I think
00:38:16
knowing Toyota,
00:38:16
they're just going to keep on keeping on
until everyone else catches on.
00:38:20
But I think it makes a whole lot of sense.
00:38:22
It can actually do a lot
to really help the environment.
00:38:25
If we see, you know,
there's an option here
00:38:28
that you could be purely electric
without having the compromises.
00:38:31
Yeah.
00:38:32
Will the economies change
where it's not $6 more in the future?
00:38:35
Maybe we'll have to say.
00:38:36
But, it is unbelievably impressive.
00:38:39
Its powertrain.
00:38:40
Yeah, 50 grand is super expensive
00:38:43
considering it's
the average price of a new car today,
00:38:46
which is, well, you know, considering
where we were five, six, nine years ago.
00:38:50
And, you know, you just, you know, the
leaps, you know, I mean, I remember like,
00:38:54
oh yeah, average car is 27 nine.
00:38:56
It's gone up to 30 this year.
00:38:58
And everyone was like,
you know, now all of a sudden it's 50.
00:39:00
Now, there's a lot of factors to that.
00:39:02
We know, you know,
there's still affordable cars.
00:39:04
A lot of it is manufacturers selling late
in, you know, big
00:39:08
SUVs laden with options are only selling
King ranches.
00:39:11
You know, in high countries of trucks.
00:39:14
There's all kinds of reasons you can
you can make for it.
00:39:17
But Kia Sportage between 41
00:39:20
and 47 Hyundai Tucson at five.
00:39:23
I forgot to get the numbers on the Kia
Sorento 548 to 53
00:39:28
Mitsubishi Outlander tops out at 63.
00:39:31
You know you
you almost the only things that are really
00:39:35
plug ins that are more expensive
are going to be the lexuses, you know,
00:39:37
which are similar or similar,
you know, powertrains just nicer,
00:39:41
you know, and they don't have the
the newest one, but the nicer version.
00:39:44
You're getting more different
for that money.
00:39:46
You could get a Mazda 670 plug
00:39:49
in, but we wouldn't recommend
getting that reliability wise.
00:39:52
For less. That's about it.
00:39:54
But be the other way to look at
it is like, say you are looking
00:39:57
you're you're ev curious.
00:40:00
You know,
you you've been considering it an idea,
00:40:03
but you can't really pull the trigger
because you're not ready to kind of
00:40:07
you're worried about the infrastructure,
you're worried about that,
00:40:09
or you don't want to have an EV.
00:40:10
And then another car that I have to drive
or I have to maintain both of those.
00:40:14
This thing could do it all
without the life investment, right?
00:40:17
With a life to. Yeah.
00:40:18
So so it's like ultimately,
you know, for $50.
00:40:21
I mean, you
00:40:22
look at the EVs that are available right
now, that's not crazy for a vehicle
00:40:26
that has this capability
and this power, at $50.
00:40:30
And,
you can drive an EV for 98% of your time.
00:40:36
Yeah.
00:40:36
So it's it's kind of a no compromise way
00:40:39
to get into that again,
you know, regardless of the price.
00:40:43
So regardless of the
am I getting my money back
00:40:46
for someone who wants to use electricity
because they're concerned about
00:40:49
how much gasoline we use, for
whatever reason,
00:40:52
this is kind of a
no compromise way to get into that.
00:40:54
Yeah, it's not a I'm sorry.
00:40:55
It's not a red for I mean, look at all
the people who who all of a sudden spike
00:40:58
EV sales and even spiked
a little bit of sales after they, Iran.
00:41:03
So, you know,
people are caring about that.
00:41:06
It's not just,
you know, green or something like that.
00:41:09
I mean, once you see
00:41:10
spikes, all the interest in hybrids
and any kind of hybrid adjacent goes well.
00:41:13
And again, you know, it's a it's like the
what was it was it back
00:41:18
to the future three were, you know,
you could throw everything into the lorry.
00:41:21
And you know, I mean this is it's Mr.
00:41:23
Fusion, it's Mr. Q right.
00:41:24
I mean, if electricity prices go up,
you know, I could use more gas.
00:41:27
Have electric gas prices go up,
I can use more electricity.
00:41:29
You know, you're kind of covered.
00:41:31
You could run on
and it does each one of those.
00:41:33
Great.
00:41:34
Again there's other plug in hybrids on the
market that once the electricity's gone.
00:41:38
Yeah it's it's a ten mile drop
or something in your fuel economy.
00:41:41
We're noisy and it's it's
it's not very fuel efficient.
00:41:45
You're getting 20 miles per gallon
suddenly. Yeah.
00:41:46
This is not that Alex. Yeah.
00:41:48
So we did it. I looked it up.
00:41:50
We did a survey
and I think it was 20, 24 that,
00:41:53
percentage of people
who, plug in hybrids, who plug them in.
00:41:56
And it was
I think it was 80% that we found,
00:41:59
which I think it should be, because
if you're gonna actually get what you're
00:42:03
what you paid for something like this,
you have to plug it in.
00:42:04
And the idea would
if the idea of, you know,
00:42:08
being able to plug into just a wall outlet
and for 12 hours and in the morning,
00:42:13
being able to just drive on that,
if that doesn't excite you
00:42:16
a little bit, then maybe just go
for the regular non plug in hybrid.
00:42:19
Yeah.
00:42:19
But if that sounds kind of interesting
to you.
00:42:21
And again not just the idea of like being
you know, more efficient
00:42:25
but or the idea of like a car operating
at higher efficiency electric and then
00:42:28
also having flexibility if that interest
you like this kind of nails that it's
00:42:32
it's kind of a fun thing to own
and look with.
00:42:34
Now that we have the, first
drive on the Rav4 plug in hybrid
00:42:39
EV, up on Consumer Reports
talk, we've also got the regular Rav4,
00:42:44
which is hybrid only.
We've got a full road test on that.
00:42:47
Everything that you would like to know
about the Rav4.
00:42:48
We even have one coming in to test soon.
Another Rav4 hybrid.
00:42:51
So go to Consumer reports.org/suvs
and you can find that information.
00:42:56
So now we're going to move to the question
and answer part of this show.
00:42:58
Send your questions to us at a new address
talking cars at consumers.
00:43:03
Org. It's one word talking
cars@consumer.org.
00:43:06
We will ship you out.
00:43:07
A nice t shirt
if we use your question on the show.
00:43:10
No empty envelopes, no scams.
00:43:12
You can get a show, a shirt
just like Daniel here is, a sporting.
00:43:16
So send us a question.
00:43:18
If we choose it, you could be just as dope
as Daniel, right, Dave?
00:43:21
That's right. All righty though.
00:43:23
So our question for today comes from Will
from Redding, Pennsylvania, who submits?
00:43:28
My first car was a 1986 Volkswagen
Jetta L.
00:43:32
I bought it in 1991.
00:43:33
It had 86 miles on it,
and I paid $4.
00:43:37
I have four teens
00:43:38
now, one just turning 16,
and it's time to shop for his first car.
00:43:42
No. Where will I be able to find
a car today that is less than ten years
00:43:45
old, with under 100 miles
for under five K?
00:43:49
I've looked at your list of recommended
cars for teens under $10,
00:43:52
but for the most of these cars,
the mileage will be over 100 miles.
00:43:55
How worried should I be about high mileage
00:43:57
when considering a somewhat affordable car
for my teen?
00:44:00
Is a reliable car with more miles a safer
bet than a newer one with a lower
00:44:03
reliability score?
00:44:05
Your thoughts would be helpful,
00:44:06
as I may have to consider this question
four times with four teens.
00:44:10
All right, well,
Jake's bought the most cars for teenagers.
00:44:13
Yes, yes, I've just gone through the
whole teen thing myself and,
00:44:19
Look, I,
00:44:19
I'm familiar with the late 80s,
Volkswagens, you know?
00:44:24
And the truth is, is that,
00:44:27
you know, a newer car with higher miles
00:44:29
is still going to be less
trouble prone than that. So.
00:44:33
So, my older son,
00:44:36
I just sold the car that he was driving
through, as in high school and college.
00:44:42
And it was a, a well, now it's a 20 year
00:44:45
old Prius that had 160 miles.
00:44:49
And through the time
that he was in high school
00:44:51
and college,
it had basically no problems at all. So.
00:44:56
So, yes, you know, back in the day
you could get this, you know, late
00:45:00
80s Jetta, but, I would say a Toyota
or something like that with 150, 160
00:45:07
miles, you're going to have a much better
time and less, much less issues.
00:45:12
And in terms of cost, yeah,
I mean, like obviously,
00:45:15
you know, the cost of new cars
and used cars.
00:45:17
Very expensive.
00:45:18
I sold that car just recently
and I got four grand for it.
00:45:22
That's this was stole a
this is still a $5 car
00:45:27
which gets 43 miles per gallon and is
pretty trouble free and gets a 100 screws.
00:45:33
So it's I feel like the today's 160
is kind of like yesterday's 80.
00:45:38
Yeah.
00:45:38
So, so so yeah,
there are many models out there
00:45:42
that are still going to be trouble.
00:45:44
And the funny thing
is, when I went to go sell the Prius,
00:45:46
you know, I'm
00:45:46
looking at listings and it's like,
you know, 160 miles is actually low.
00:45:50
You see ones that with 300 miles
that are still being sold for,
00:45:54
you know, $3 because there's
so much life in some of today's cars.
00:45:58
I mean, we're gone in the days
where, you know, you had 100 and
00:46:01
and the the odometer turns over because
they don't expect you to go that far. Yep.
00:46:06
They're totally.
You expect that now? Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:09
If you're buying a car at that mileage,
you will potentially encounter
00:46:12
some expensive maintenance
that you have to do.
00:46:13
So the tongue belts, if that timing belt,
spark plugs, those kinds of things.
00:46:17
Good thing though, you'll probably
won't have to do them once.
00:46:19
If you do take care of that, it's
potential.
00:46:21
Obviously you're going to ride,
00:46:22
but I mean, again, the eight year
old Volkswagen back in the 90s,
00:46:26
you have the potential to
and you have potential
00:46:28
with electrical problems
and all the problem head gaskets.
00:46:31
Absolutely.
Yeah. All that all comes later.
00:46:33
So and again like I'm thinking
through eight years of that Prius
00:46:36
and there wasn't the
now there was an electric.
00:46:40
It did need a hybrid electric a battery.
00:46:42
So I, I'm, I'm, I'm lying to our viewers
here.
00:46:45
We had a problem with it.
00:46:46
It was 450 bucks to replace it.
00:46:49
The battery
replaced the battery in the Prius.
00:46:50
So you could
sometimes you could find local
00:46:52
people are replacing these batteries
with with good use batteries.
00:46:56
So it wasn't super expensive.
00:46:57
But I mean, it was not other than that,
which it really didn't really cost a lot.
00:47:02
So so it all depends on what you.
00:47:04
So I would say,
you know, you know, look at our ratings.
00:47:08
I mean we've got reliability information
for cars going back 25 years.
00:47:13
So if you're looking for that
you know, 18 year old, you know, Corolla
00:47:17
or something like that,
it may have a lot of life to get it.
00:47:20
I think it would
it would definitely have life.
00:47:22
I think it's where you buy it from.
00:47:24
Certainly. Sure. You know,
00:47:27
that's the that's the type of car
you may want to splurge a little bit
00:47:30
and just have someone check it over.
00:47:34
Because maintenance
is going to go a long way.
00:47:36
You know, you poorly
00:47:36
maintained new car might be far less
reliable than a than an unmaintained.
00:47:40
Yeah.
00:47:41
I mean, than a highly maintained old car.
00:47:43
You know, you're just going to be
00:47:45
that that that history of the vehicle.
00:47:47
You need to know
00:47:48
as far as the dependability
reliability of it from the automaker side.
00:47:52
Yeah, the Toyota, the Honda,
something like that.
00:47:54
Some older Mazdas
and those are all going to be good ones.
00:47:56
I would say, having gone
through this recently, my my daughter,
00:48:00
and I don't have four kids.
00:48:02
More power to you will.
00:48:03
It maybe and I don't know
Will's financial situation.
00:48:08
Overall.
00:48:08
I'm not going to try to try to guess,
00:48:10
but I know that we looked at
what we're going to buy,
00:48:13
and then the hand down time
and the hand down time.
00:48:15
So, I mean, if you have to buy
four with 14, that's a lot.
00:48:19
But if you're able to do the hand down,
00:48:21
perhaps you can
you can just insert a little newer,
00:48:25
you know,
and just because there's also figuring
00:48:27
in its safety features, you know,
that's the one thing that I had on
00:48:30
there was like, sure, you don't want
your teen breaking down somewhere.
00:48:35
And having a massive cost, but
you don't want your teen to have a car.
00:48:38
That's just, that's this doesn't
have some of the safety systems
00:48:42
that have come on in the last.
00:48:44
And again, that Prius was 20 years old
and it had stability control.
00:48:47
Sure.
00:48:47
So I mean, obviously it didn't have
automatic emergency braking.
00:48:49
But I think what it leads to is
you're better off
00:48:51
with a newer car with higher miles. Yeah.
00:48:53
Because that newer car is going to have,
00:48:55
you know, newer crash
tests, newer safety equipment and
00:48:58
and the other thing for the teens,
I mean, again, this is how are we
00:49:01
sure he was,
you know, cruising around town with it
00:49:04
with the old Prius,
if he did it go somewhere on the weekend.
00:49:07
Yeah. He's using, you know, mom's car
or something like that.
00:49:09
You know, something a little bit safer and
more reliable if he's going out of town.
00:49:12
But a lot of times
teens aren't putting tons of miles.
00:49:15
They're going around.
00:49:15
No, you know, going to school and back
and, you know, an older car.
00:49:19
Can I worry more about the,
00:49:21
car accidents in the high school
parking lot than the car?
00:49:23
Extend the Merritt Parkway.
00:49:25
It's much more calm. It's
going to be more common.
00:49:27
All right. So.
00:49:28
So we'll let us know what you end up
doing.
00:49:30
Be really great to, to hear,
as I said before,
00:49:33
send us the the information
talking cars@consumer.org.
00:49:37
So that's going to do it for this episode.
00:49:38
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if you're watching this on YouTube,
00:49:40
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00:49:43
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00:49:46
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00:49:57
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00:50:00
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