This week, we're talking all about the 2026 Lexus ES Hybrid. We share our first impressions of this perennial CR favorite, discuss how it stacks up against its all-new EV twin, the Lexus ES 500e, and debate whether the 2026 redesign offers enough improvements over older, popular (and reliable) models from Toyota/Lexus. We also answer questions about the risks of buying a redesigned car in its first production year and about how child seat technology, seat belts, and driving habits have changed over the last 60 years.
SHOW NOTES:
0:10 - Intro
0:25 - 2026 Lexus ES Hybrid, Overview
1:30 - Pricing
1:55 - First Impressions
7:13 - Hybrid system quirks
11:20 - Driving & Interior characteristics
16:00 - Infotainment system
19:05 - Beeps & safety systems
22:26 - Lexus ES 350 Hybrid vs. Toyota Avalon
34:02 - Question #1: Is it safe to buy a vehicle in the first year of production?
42:02 - Question #2 (video): How have cars become safer for child passengers when you compare data from the 1960's to today?
LINKS:
Review: The Redesigned Lexus ES Hybrid Is in Its Soft Era: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/lexus-es-hybrid-review-a1014364803/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
2026 Lexus ES Hybrid: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/lexus/es-hybrid/2026/overview/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
2026 Lexus ES EV: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/lexus/es/2026/overview/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
Test Results: 2026 Toyota Crown: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/toyota/crown/2026/overview/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
Test Results: 2026 Mazda CX-5: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/mazda/cx-5/2026/overview/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
Test Results: 2026 BMW X3: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/bmw/x3/2026/overview/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
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00:00:20
Welcome back to the Talking Cars podcast.
00:00:22
I'm Alex Knizek I'm John Linkov
and I'm Keith Barry All right.
00:00:25
So today we are talking about the Lexus
S hybrid.
00:00:29
And I'm actually pretty excited
to talk about this car
00:00:31
because historically Lexus S done
well in cars testing pretty popular car.
00:00:37
And actually, I was thinking about this,
drove the car all weekend.
00:00:40
Pretty unique right now, right?
00:00:41
To have a hybrid luxury larger
sedan like this.
00:00:44
There aren't a ton of vehicles like this
on the market at the moment, so any any.
00:00:50
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
00:00:51
I was trying to think about it.
00:00:53
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That alone.
00:00:54
That alone is a filter.
00:00:56
You start to really whittle down
00:00:57
available vehicles
and then add the hybrid aspect to it and.
00:01:01
Yeah okay. So this it's a unique offering.
00:01:04
For context, we also have just
recently finished testing the EV version.
00:01:08
So this is kind of new for Lexus
where there's an EV and a hybrid.
00:01:12
And so these in its first year.
Yeah right.
00:01:15
That's right.
00:01:15
And this is its own thing that continues.
00:01:19
Yeah.
00:01:20
They've had a hybrid. Yes before. Right.
00:01:21
And so this is kind of the redesign.
00:01:23
The EV is the new entrant.
Yeah. All together.
00:01:25
So keep that in mind as we go.
00:01:27
Quickly we bought a 2026
00:01:29
S 350 H all wheel drive.
00:01:32
We got the convenience package
and the cold area package.
00:01:36
And in the end, it runs out to
about $55 with destination,
00:01:40
which is interestingly pretty similar to
the price of the EV that we also tested.
00:01:45
So it's not like one is massively
more expensive than the other.
00:01:49
They're fairly comparable
depending on how you optioned them out.
00:01:51
But anyway, so let's get into it.
00:01:53
John, let's start with you.
00:01:54
What stood out about the S hybrid?
00:01:58
All right.
00:01:58
So super quiet Toyota
hybrids do have that kind of.
00:02:01
Oh, and the gas engine kicks in under hard
acceleration.
00:02:04
It gets like, agricultural sounding.
00:02:06
Yeah. Gritty.
00:02:07
Not as bad.
00:02:07
There's a lot of power.
You're not into that nearly as much.
00:02:10
Even like hard accelerations
on the highway.
00:02:13
I didn't find it offensive in the sense of
I am not a crown Crown signature fan.
00:02:18
Okay. Because of that.
00:02:19
Because of that. Yeah,
there's a number of things.
00:02:21
I'm not a fan about this cars,
00:02:22
but the engine is in like way too early
and it's just not pleasant.
00:02:27
Yeah. And, this I don't feel the same way.
00:02:30
Okay.
00:02:30
And there's,
you see the levels of refinement, whether
00:02:34
there's, there's more power or whether
there's better sound deadening, etc..
00:02:37
So it's just much better there.
00:02:39
I will say it was almost exactly
what I expected, having driven
00:02:44
the EV and spent a bunch of time
00:02:45
with that, having driven other Toyota
Lexus hybrids, I agree with you.
00:02:48
They've done work here.
00:02:49
It's not the same, but it's like,
okay, this is going to be
00:02:53
is it's exactly what I expect.
00:02:54
It's a Toyota hybrid experience.
00:02:56
It's just maybe like not 11.
00:02:58
Yeah. Yeah. That's right. So and
00:03:01
I will say I was personally pretty
00:03:04
I'll even say smitten by the EV
because of how quiet it was.
00:03:08
I mean, just like super quiet
and this retains that in terms of road
00:03:12
and wind noise and such.
But the engine definitely changes things.
00:03:15
I don't know, Keith,
if you found kind of a similar.
00:03:17
Yeah, I it was unfair.
00:03:19
I think that we got to drive the EV first
because this is a car
00:03:22
that is meant to be an EV.
00:03:24
It kind of shows you.
00:03:25
Okay, EVs aren't
just about about instantaneous
00:03:28
torque and about,
you know, tailpipe emissions.
00:03:32
They're also just about being able
to make a car that's incredibly quiet.
00:03:36
Yeah.
00:03:36
And if you have a car that isolates
everything else, as Lexus tends to do,
00:03:41
the EV really shines.
00:03:42
So if I'd never driven
the EV, I would say, oh my gosh,
00:03:45
they made a better version of this car
that we absolutely, totally already loved.
00:03:50
Yeah, yeah, there were a few things
just even before I drove it though,
00:03:53
the expectation thing for me
was a little because,
00:03:57
you know, so first of all,
I saw the price,
00:03:59
which went up
like many thousands of dollars.
00:04:03
Compared to the outgoing year.
00:04:04
To the outgoing s hybrid.
00:04:07
You know, and and this,
this one was what it was like 55.
00:04:10
K, 55 K with destination.
00:04:12
And you used to be able.
00:04:13
To get one for higher mid 40s
as a starting.
00:04:16
And it was kind of a very good deal.
00:04:18
There were a lot of,
you know nice sub vented leases on them.
00:04:21
It was sort of the
it was a value luxury car.
00:04:23
And this is just like everything else.
00:04:26
And yeah, yeah it's not unique
necessarily to it but it is a bummer.
00:04:29
And then I look at it
and it's kind of I'm like is
00:04:32
it is very clearly,
you know, related to the Camry.
00:04:36
It's very clearly
00:04:38
this is, you know, it feels a little less
it felt a little less special to me.
00:04:41
It felt like Toyota's designers
finally, you know, got the oh,
00:04:45
minimalism is in Nemo
from like six years ago.
00:04:49
Interesting. And just finally started to.
00:04:50
But then then I actually got to drive it
00:04:53
and spent time in it and all of those
kind of I don't know if I,
00:04:57
if I were in a position, I don't know
if I would spend 55 grand on it.
00:05:00
Yeah.
00:05:01
But you know, because I actually I,
I don't mind some of the rattling
00:05:05
this and the and that,
that snarl of the crown.
00:05:09
And for ten k less.
00:05:12
So that's an interesting point.
00:05:13
You mentioned similar to the Camry.
00:05:15
And I was actually thinking
about that on my way and driving
00:05:17
this car is
00:05:17
yeah it's kind of on the similar platform
but used to be more comparable
00:05:21
to the Avalon. Right.
00:05:22
Which is now gone.
So I don't know. When I was driving it,
00:05:26
I, I thought it was quite a bit
different experience than a Camry.
00:05:29
It wasn't, it didn't feel like Camry
with nicer leather or something like that.
00:05:32
I'll get to the Avalon.
00:05:34
I'll get to the Avalon.
00:05:35
I got something to say. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean.
00:05:38
The old one was very clearly Camry plus.
00:05:43
Yeah. Camry plus. Yeah.
00:05:45
You know, you know, down to down to
so much of the ergonomics and everything.
00:05:48
And now it is totally different.
00:05:50
It's it's its own vehicle other than maybe
aspects of the powertrain.
00:05:53
Right. Right right right.
00:05:54
But I think so noise is one thing.
00:05:56
Just sticking to the powertrain quickly
because
00:05:59
that's really the differentiator here
versus the EV of course.
00:06:02
And and otherwise.
00:06:03
But it works
well right. Like it's powerful.
00:06:06
There's not a lot of delay
and things like that.
00:06:08
It just comes down to the noise or it
the noise.
00:06:12
And I also one of the things I have notes
in here is like,
00:06:15
I want Toyota
stop EV mode in their hybrids,
00:06:18
because I find it
just so impossible to actually engage.
00:06:21
Oh, the fact that they have
00:06:22
a button and EV mode
and that button automatically has a beep.
00:06:26
That is not acceptable.
00:06:27
Like I don't even think it does anything
except say you're you're
00:06:30
not in the parameters
to, you know, a McDonald's milkshake.
00:06:34
It's there and it just doesn't.
00:06:36
It's accessible, I guess.
00:06:37
But yeah, no driveway. It's accessible.
00:06:39
But literally the button just does
what a hybrid already does,
00:06:42
which is go in EV mode at low
speed. Right? Yeah.
00:06:45
Maybe it gives you two extra miles an hour
before it.
00:06:47
Let's just get rid of that.
00:06:49
Whatever. Battery,
you know, spaces for it.
00:06:51
Let's just get rid of that other button.
00:06:53
Can we use that for that space?
00:06:54
I honestly, I feel like we're being too
tough on one of our favorite kids.
00:06:59
Like, I feel like we're being like.
00:07:00
Like the one who comes home
with straight A's.
00:07:02
We're being like, how come you're not
doing more extracurriculars?
00:07:05
Because this car, honestly,
00:07:07
it's like it's like, okay,
we've been we've been a little hard on it.
00:07:11
But that's because these are
the only things that we have to
00:07:13
I mean, the hybrid system itself,
the handoffs are completely seamless.
00:07:17
Listen, if so, something with the gas,
the gas only version is gone.
00:07:22
Correct.
00:07:23
But if you're the sort of person
who doesn't like hybrids or whatever,
00:07:26
you don't quite know
what that just ignore that.
00:07:29
So there's no need for this.
00:07:31
As far as it is.
00:07:32
It's a good point.
There's this is the gas version.
00:07:35
Just go ahead and buy it.
00:07:36
You'll be fine.
00:07:37
It just happens to get I got 41 miles
per gallon over the weekend.
00:07:40
Exactly, exactly. Amazing.
00:07:42
There is nothing about it.
00:07:43
And I've been driving Toyota Hybrid
since 22 and spent a lot of time
00:07:48
behind the wheel of them.
00:07:49
And this is
I mean, there's there's nothing about it.
00:07:52
I mean, it
00:07:53
just any car with a four cylinder engine,
it's going to have some of that.
00:07:56
Sure that, yeah,
there's only so much you can do. Right.
00:07:58
And exactly if that does bother
you enough, they make an EV exact right,
00:08:03
which has its own compromises.
00:08:04
And so there's a range
and things like that.
00:08:06
And this does have quite a bit longer of a
driving range, which I think 600 miles.
00:08:10
Yeah. You can just fill it up.
You don't have to plug it in.
00:08:12
So to the definitely a huge differentiator
between the two regardless.
00:08:16
And then yeah, it is still extremely quiet
otherwise.
00:08:20
And I started to get along with the car
quite a bit more as the weekend went on.
00:08:23
Put a couple hundred miles on it
and people in the back.
00:08:26
It was spacious, all these things.
00:08:27
So just, you know.
00:08:29
It's longer too,
because it also fills where the LS was.
00:08:33
So it's got about about 6.5in more space.
00:08:36
And almost all of that
I think is rear legroom.
00:08:38
It really is a lot.
00:08:39
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
00:08:40
Yeah I mean it's a big car
and it's in the EV version.
00:08:44
It kind of makes sense
because you realize all right,
00:08:45
they got to put a big battery
under the floor.
00:08:47
But then when you look at the hybrid
00:08:48
and you realize
there is no battery under the floor
00:08:50
like that, but it's quite tall
and it's a bigger vehicle.
00:08:53
But, it, it drives smaller
proportionately, I think.
00:08:56
I like it
in that the last generation. Yes.
00:09:00
And the Avalon, when it was still alive,
it was getting a little too raked.
00:09:05
Very.
00:09:06
I didn't fit it well,
the way my seating position is kind of low
00:09:09
but upright, and I find this one better.
00:09:12
Okay. So I like that.
I like that from a driving position.
00:09:15
From a driving position standpoint,
it just works really well for me
00:09:17
compared to the previous ones,
because I know
00:09:19
Keith says like it was a car
we loved. You said it's a car we loved.
00:09:22
Everyone here loved it.
I did not like, am I interesting?
00:09:24
Okay, I felt like header was here.
00:09:27
Like you couldn't sit low enough.
00:09:28
I couldn't sit low enough in the header.
00:09:30
Felt real, real close to my head.
00:09:32
And I just didn't.
Just didn't work for me.
00:09:35
Yeah. Okay.
00:09:37
Not the case here.
00:09:37
Not the case here.
00:09:38
And again, where I said
lots of room in the back for people.
00:09:42
Still lots of room for me. Comfortable
for cruising.
00:09:44
Totally. And visibility to.
00:09:46
Yeah, visibility.
00:09:47
You know, and the other thing,
when you look at it,
00:09:49
you think that's a stubby
little trunk on that car,
00:09:51
but you open it up
and it's actually quite big. Now.
00:09:53
The seats still don't fold down,
which is some like.
00:09:57
When you taught me that I didn't
I didn't know about that.
00:09:59
And like it's shocking.
00:10:01
And Lexus is so weird about it.
00:10:03
We asked in there and all of a sudden
like the face went on and they were
00:10:06
this is a brand definitional decision
about.
00:10:08
And like,
just tell us why. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:10:11
And it's probably has something to do
with not wanting road noise
00:10:15
to boom into the cabin.
00:10:16
It's I'm sure that's what it is.
00:10:18
Instead there's a ski pass.
00:10:20
Yeah, there is a little pastor,
but yeah, that's the seat comfort
00:10:23
because once you fold
and you expect them to be flat,
00:10:25
and if the seats are too cushioned
and they stop and then you get dinged.
00:10:29
But still,
it is a weird thing. It's a little weird.
00:10:31
It does limit the practicality of the car.
00:10:33
But but that's what the NX is for.
00:10:35
Next is going to get.
00:10:36
The exact same words out of my mouth.
I'm sorry.
00:10:38
No no no no no, I'm glad you did
because that means we're on the same page.
00:10:41
Yeah.
00:10:42
But yeah.
So driving position for a moment.
00:10:45
It is a little bit of, like, a narrower
cockpit, depending on on who you are,
00:10:49
but you have pretty good headroom,
I thought.
00:10:51
And because this car is a little taller
for a sedan, you almost feel like you're
00:10:55
sitting a little more up than,
00:10:57
I don't know, compared
to maybe the old yes, for sure.
00:10:59
But then even just sedans in general,
00:11:00
it's a little bit of a taller
seating position.
00:11:02
I feel like is the floor plan
for pan higher because of the battery?
00:11:06
Could be when you get out.
00:11:07
So you just get that little elevation,
almost like the crown in that way,
00:11:10
where it's this yeah, light
in between kind of shape and position.
00:11:14
But I think it's good for it.
00:11:16
Combine it
with the good visibility in overall.
00:11:18
I mean,
I don't know what you guys thought.
00:11:19
It drives similar to the EV.
00:11:22
But is it regardless
an easy to drive car, right.
00:11:25
Yeah. Yeah.
There's not I mean, it's it's not
00:11:29
it's never been a,
00:11:31
canyon carver.
00:11:32
Yeah, yeah.
00:11:33
You know, it's
just not what Lexus is. A true.
00:11:35
Even when they tried to, they couldn't,
00:11:37
it's a cruiser. It's a highway car.
00:11:39
It's around town. It it just it's simple.
00:11:43
Yeah. I think it's better for it. Better.
00:11:45
Why do you want to pay.
00:11:46
Why do you want pay for luxury
and then have trouble.
00:11:49
Yeah. So sure.
00:11:50
Yeah I it's something I mean I love,
I mean the, the interior I was a little
00:11:54
I was again on the luxury side of things I
so this is an interesting.
00:11:59
Well first of all one thing
I just got to say that cold area package.
00:12:02
I love the fact they call it a cold area
package because it warms your cold areas.
00:12:06
It has this thing.
00:12:08
It has this like like rotisserie
grill burner.
00:12:12
Yeah, yeah. On it.
00:12:13
And you turn it on and it.
00:12:14
Warms are radiating here.
00:12:16
It's actually and there's one
and there's passenger
00:12:18
passenger and driver
that's actually really cool.
00:12:20
But other than that, when I,
00:12:21
when I saw the pictures of the interior
I thought, wow, they really chipped out.
00:12:26
And then I got in and I actually touched
the surfaces and it's funny.
00:12:30
So I drove around in this car
with my mother
00:12:33
and she said it feels nicer than it looks.
00:12:37
And I said you can have my job
because I've been struggling with what.
00:12:40
What is up with this interior.
Yeah. And why.
00:12:42
And you and I have been kind of not on the
same page about the new Lexus interior.
00:12:46
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:12:47
And I get it because all of the soft
touch, like the dashboard
00:12:51
looks like that
hard, rubbery, grainy plastic.
00:12:54
And then you touch it. Yeah.
00:12:55
And it has this nice feel and give to it.
00:12:57
And everything has just a a nice
it just nice
00:13:01
touch points like the window regulators
to get that soft closing on them.
00:13:05
That is that extra little detail.
00:13:06
But yeah but that is interesting
because that's the opposite of
00:13:09
I feel like a problem a lot of cars has
where it looks nicer than it feels.
00:13:13
Right. Yeah.
00:13:13
Touch the fake wood and go right.
00:13:16
This plastic this.
00:13:17
Yeah. Right.
So this is kind of the opposite.
00:13:19
I mean, the leather
that they used to cover
00:13:21
the steering wheel
or leather like material,
00:13:23
whatever it actually is, it's like super,
super soft and you wouldn't know it,
00:13:27
but until you touch it
and get your hands on it.
00:13:28
But I think those are the types of details
00:13:30
that I guess the extra mile a little bit.
00:13:32
And I think the car keys point
the lighter color.
00:13:35
You know, we have a darker interior,
but the lighter color
00:13:37
interior
really shows some highlights as well.
00:13:39
So it's that's that's the thing to get.
00:13:41
Yeah.
00:13:42
Which the pop really helps
you see that that that suppleness.
00:13:47
And the higher end luxury trim
has this like bamboo kind of accent
00:13:51
which I think looks I think it
totally changes the look of the car.
00:13:54
Yeah. Totally.
00:13:55
So don't buy the entry level in black.
00:13:57
Well those are all going to go to Uber
black anyway. Yeah. Yeah.
00:14:00
This car is like the quintessential I want
to pay 20% more for a rideshare car.
00:14:06
I think I'd be happy if this showed up.
This is the modern.
00:14:09
Yeah. This is the car that's going
to pick you up and you're going to.
00:14:11
Oh, this is this is nice.
00:14:12
I had, some friends sit in the back,
00:14:16
over the weekend,
and it was that exact scenario.
00:14:18
I felt like an Uber driver.
00:14:20
And then they were like,
oh, there's so much space.
00:14:21
Look at the screen.
And it's so nice. And could.
00:14:23
They get out of the back
seat with the door handles.
00:14:26
Going there. Are we going.
We have to go there. Yeah.
00:14:28
Let's take a stop the pit stop real quick.
00:14:30
That door handles because no
couldn't get out and it was a whole thing.
00:14:35
It only took once
to, you know, their credit.
00:14:37
Once I showed them the first time.
The second time was better, but it was.
00:14:40
Where is it?
00:14:41
Okay.
00:14:41
Now, I found it, and I press it,
but it won't open, right,
00:14:44
because it got a kind of press hold
and push at the same time.
00:14:47
So just why.
00:14:47
Does the arrow say pull
when you're supposed to.
00:14:50
Push?
00:14:50
It was also dark, so I don't think there's
any backlighting behind.
00:14:54
Let the double check this.
But they couldn't find it on the door.
00:14:56
Like physically.
00:14:57
Well, it's like you push so they don't.
00:14:59
So then you pulls it, but it doesn't work
because it's a double pull.
00:15:02
So then they push again.
00:15:02
But it's kind of
00:15:03
in this weird thing I've, I've had a
I had to reach out a number of times back.
00:15:07
Okay. Let me just do this.
00:15:08
Like turning around to the backseat,
you know, grabbing it to let some
00:15:11
kid out, like,
00:15:14
that takes
away from the luxury experience.
00:15:15
So it all this whole touch stuff
is to get rid
00:15:19
of mechanical pieces
and creating mechanical,
00:15:23
wear pieces or things, and it's much
easier and cheaper and saves money.
00:15:27
So they have a mechanical, soft touch
electric piece.
00:15:31
Yeah.
00:15:32
I mean, there's other things they can do,
right with having the electric.
00:15:35
But yeah, ultimately
it's just put the handle. Yeah.
00:15:38
No one task. I don't think the question.
00:15:40
Who asked for this. Yeah.
00:15:42
Well it's interesting
because we are talking about how,
00:15:44
you know, Lexus is almost bucking some
trends by even making this car in general.
00:15:49
Right. Hybrid luxury sedan cool.
00:15:51
Focus on comfort.
That's also not that common, right?
00:15:54
Everybody wants their car to do
everything.
00:15:55
Yeah, be sporty and quiet.
00:15:57
But they still are succumbing
to some trends.
00:16:00
Whether it's the door
handle, the big screen,
00:16:03
the flush controls like even Toyota
at this point is got it looks at the
00:16:07
the product planning board and says, crap,
we have to put in this trendy thing.
00:16:12
Right.
00:16:13
So this car is not, escaping
those things that either the big.
00:16:16
Screen isn't that bad.
00:16:18
I agree, I think.
00:16:19
The touch buttons aren't that bad.
00:16:22
Those.
00:16:23
So the the buttons below the screen.
00:16:26
I was thinking about this this morning
and really what?
00:16:28
So for those just listening,
I think not seeing
00:16:31
the b roll, it's
basically like a flush panel.
00:16:34
It's not a touch screen
and it's not touch capacitive.
00:16:37
It's like this. It's actually leather
covered. Right? Right.
00:16:39
Yeah.
Going back to feels better than it looks.
00:16:42
And they're
00:16:42
like embedded under the leather surface
basically.
00:16:45
And like when you run your hand across it,
you can kind of feel.
00:16:48
But yeah, really what I guess
made them okay.
00:16:51
Not great for me is that I can rest
my hand on it on like a touch screen
00:16:55
and then press it right,
like you can anchor your hand,
00:16:58
whereas a touch screen,
you got to do the hover right.
00:17:00
You gotta try to line up your finger
and then tap it.
00:17:02
This you can at.
00:17:03
Least looks like the Murano your hand,
but it's so much. Better.
00:17:06
Yeah, is better than that I totally agree.
00:17:08
But you have to look.
00:17:10
You do have to look.
It is not as good as a regular old.
00:17:12
I mean, button.
00:17:13
I was thinking about that
with with whatever I was I was driving in
00:17:17
is today is when it's all on the screen,
you have to look
00:17:21
for the heated seat buttons and whatever.
00:17:23
Totally.
00:17:23
And, you know, whereas if it's a button
with a ridge, which companies say, oh,
00:17:28
the steering wheel has ridges
00:17:29
and you could figure out like,
okay, there's two buttons,
00:17:30
there's a ridge, I just know, okay,
this button on the right is this.
00:17:33
And you can do it in stages, right?
00:17:35
You can look right,
00:17:35
put your finger on it and then like
and then the muscle memory do it right.
00:17:38
Whereas the screen
you just can't really do the.
00:17:41
Screen though the
you know at least the icons are big.
00:17:44
The buttons new. Software is big.
It's pretty good at like.
00:17:47
We've been having few issues
with with connecting our phones.
00:17:51
To a perennial Toyota Lexus issue
as of, let's call it five years.
00:17:55
Yeah, yeah.
00:17:56
And I mean,
I give automakers a break in some respects
00:17:58
because, you know, they're
they're always trailing the phone company.
00:18:01
Yeah. The phone software.
Yeah, sure. Yeah.
00:18:03
There's some update now.
00:18:04
It's like,
you know what that connection is?
00:18:07
I give them a small break.
00:18:08
Yeah, I agree this
00:18:09
this one was a little better with my phone
actually reliably connecting to the car.
00:18:13
Usually when I started it.
00:18:14
Not every time, but let's call it, you
know, seven out of ten times something.
00:18:19
If I wasn't on someone's Wi-Fi,
it connected. Perfect.
00:18:21
Okay. Yeah.
00:18:22
Yeah. When? When I park in my garage
and it's on my house. Wi-Fi.
00:18:25
And that set it
up and then there's a weird.
00:18:27
Yeah.
00:18:28
And I think the rest of it controls
wise. Yeah.
00:18:30
The software is pretty good.
00:18:31
They, it's still a little complex
00:18:33
but they've simplified their gauge
cluster design
00:18:35
since you know their first iteration
of this latest software.
00:18:39
Little easier
to navigate the menus, things like that.
00:18:41
So the one thing I had to
that made me laugh
00:18:44
a little bit is and this sort of unique
to this Lexus models,
00:18:47
they have these ambient light strips
that kind of go throughout the car.
00:18:50
And depending on the mode
they're on, they like flash and change
00:18:53
color randomly while you're driving.
00:18:55
So to have that happening
and then also the driver monitoring camera
00:18:58
warning me about distraction at the same
time, it's like, what was that?
00:19:02
Yeah, let's turn off the flashing
lights, maybe,
00:19:04
and then I'll be a little bit
more focused.
00:19:06
I mean, I know, I like the car as a car.
00:19:09
Yeah. Oh, totally.
00:19:11
I think by and large,
yeah, there's just elements.
00:19:14
There's just like some Toyota
ish elements.
00:19:15
And I'm just so down
on to your distraction point. It's.
00:19:18
So why do I need to be beeped at when I'm
in reverse and I'm pulling out of a spot.
00:19:24
So then the the side alert
00:19:26
is going off with that beeping
and then someone goes behind.
00:19:30
So there's another be I wrote the note.
00:19:32
Like the only thing with more beeps and
bells is this is the album Tubular Bells.
00:19:36
Like it is.
00:19:38
There's just so much noise. Yes.
00:19:40
And then you get situations
like the front, like front cross traffic,
00:19:44
whereas, you know, like, okay, you
sit in an intersection and then you begin
00:19:48
to creep like slightly off the brake
and then it's angry at.
00:19:51
Yeah, it's just I know the safety side
from our perspective.
00:19:55
And I get it and I get that
people are even worse drivers every day.
00:19:59
Yeah.
00:20:00
And they need safety
to protect them from themselves.
00:20:03
But the backing up beep has to go Toyota.
00:20:06
Yeah. You're talking about inside
inside the car.
00:20:08
You just get a chance.
00:20:09
Just get a chime
telling the other EVs do that.
00:20:11
And yeah I'm with you.
00:20:13
I don't quite understand that the
the cross traffic one is interesting
00:20:16
because it's one of those features
00:20:17
where when I do want it to be there
and when it works, it is helpful.
00:20:21
Awesome, right?
00:20:22
You're a couple of times like off ramps
where you have to time your and like you
00:20:26
said, you.
00:20:26
You take a break or something.
00:20:28
It's what it what's. Yes what's going on.
00:20:30
Why is it beeping at me.
00:20:31
I have a and or especially ones
where there's multiple lanes of traffic
00:20:36
and you can't tell that the car
that's coming.
00:20:38
Yeah.
00:20:38
Is coming either in the other direction
that you're not going anyways.
00:20:42
Some of the logic
behind it I think the best
00:20:47
you know,
00:20:47
active safety
systems are ones that you don't notice
00:20:51
are the ones where you don't know
that the car even has it.
00:20:53
And then all of a sudden one day it,
00:20:55
you know, saves you from something bad
happening.
00:20:57
And here there's a little more.
00:20:58
And I think our fear is
that we know these systems work.
00:21:02
And if people don't like how they're
implemented, they'll turn them off.
00:21:06
Right now, no benefit. Exactly.
00:21:08
And then they lose. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
00:21:09
So I think that's one of the but
00:21:10
but again,
it's another one of those things you get
00:21:13
when you own the car, when you drive it,
you get you know, you get used to it.
00:21:17
I think I agree to a point
I mean like blind spot, I find that
00:21:20
with that particularly
because you know you're moving your jet,
00:21:22
you're, you're flowing in traffic,
it might go beep
00:21:25
but you've already executed
say a lane change.
00:21:27
You know you can tell if the car is closer
or if it's these other ones
00:21:31
that almost make you.
00:21:32
Yeah, freeze.
00:21:33
A lot of it is, you know,
if you're rolling and you get that,
00:21:35
do you get a rear?
00:21:36
Yeah.
00:21:37
Is there a kid on a scooter
they're coming zero or is.
00:21:39
It or is it just at the other
lane has a tractor trailer
00:21:41
going by and I know I'm going to jump
and that's that's are you.
00:21:45
They can't tell.
00:21:46
So it's a warning
for all instead of a warning for some.
00:21:49
Yeah.
00:21:49
No that's right
00:21:50
I mean yeah the context really matters
I think at one point over the weekend, we,
00:21:54
we're driving the car
and pulled over on the side of the road,
00:21:56
and I think I had the door ajar
a little bit.
00:21:59
And so there's car, you know, we're
00:22:01
very off the road safely to the side,
but there's cars passing by.
00:22:04
Right.
00:22:04
And the
I don't know if it was the cross traffic
00:22:07
or the blind spot or what,
but it just wouldn't stop beeping.
00:22:11
Right. I left the car running because
Ali was inside. Whatever. Keep it warm.
00:22:15
And it was just one of those moments
where it was like,
00:22:16
this is now a chaotic situation
when all I was trying to do was sit here
00:22:20
with the door
propped open for whatever reason. Right.
00:22:22
But anyway, that's not totally unique to
to this car specifically, but.
00:22:27
So. Okay, so, Keith,
you had an interesting
00:22:30
kind of comparison that you did
with this car and a Avalon, right?
00:22:34
Or no.
00:22:35
An older. Yes.
00:22:36
No one's an Avalon. It wasn't an. Apple.
00:22:38
Yeah.
00:22:38
We have we have last generation
S hybrid in the extended family.
00:22:43
Yeah.
00:22:43
But the one that I drove the,
you know, back to back with this one
00:22:47
was my mother's Avalon,
and it was the last of the Avalon.
00:22:50
It's seven years
old, has 80 miles on it.
00:22:53
And I thought, you know,
what better way to figure out?
00:22:56
Oh, as she said, I mean, she commutes.
00:22:58
She commutes a heck of a lot in that car.
00:23:00
Okay.
00:23:01
But, but anyhow.
00:23:02
But it's, And loves it.
00:23:04
Yeah.
00:23:04
And, and I wanted to kind of
go back and forth and see what was up,
00:23:09
and I and my, my assumption would
be, would be that there would be things
00:23:12
that I would like about one
and about the other.
00:23:16
And the thing that we
and she came along with me too, because
00:23:20
she's thinking, okay, this car, you know
at some point do I want to upgrade.
00:23:23
Do I want to go fully electric.
00:23:25
Do I want to get something smaller.
00:23:27
So she's always interested.
00:23:28
I got my interest in cars from her anyway.
00:23:30
So we're driving around in it
and she's, you know, this.
00:23:33
I just the,
the engine doesn't turn on as often.
00:23:37
And the wind and road
noise is more isolated than the Lexus.
00:23:40
But other than that,
I don't think it's that different.
00:23:43
So we did it back to back.
00:23:45
And again, it's it's sort of the
00:23:48
the snarl was more of a growl
in the Lexus.
00:23:52
Yeah, it was, but it was just
I mean, the Avalon already
00:23:56
seven years ago, they had already gotten
95% of the way to where this car is.
00:24:03
And again.
00:24:04
Diminishing returns perhaps. Exactly.
00:24:06
At some point you're getting to
and the Avalon was you know high 30s.
00:24:12
It was not.
00:24:13
Price wise.
00:24:13
Price wise.
Yeah. It was not a $55 card.
00:24:18
You know again the in and out.
00:24:20
It was interesting.
00:24:21
My mother found it easier to get into.
00:24:24
But a little harder
to get out of than the Avalon.
00:24:27
Dropping it.
00:24:28
Dropping it? Yeah. She found it easier to.
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
00:24:30
So it's, but it's a, it's a, you know,
but the visibility was a little better.
00:24:34
It was, but it was just,
it was all these little refinements.
00:24:37
And I think the thing is
these are the sort of cars
00:24:40
where someone read
Consumer Reports in 1994
00:24:43
and has just been buying this car
in various guises ever since.
00:24:48
Maybe they got in
when they had kids in school.
00:24:51
Yeah, maybe they're, you know,
and now they're back to the.
00:24:53
So honestly,
I think that the problem with this car
00:24:58
is, is, is the is
is you do such a good job.
00:25:01
Yeah.
00:25:01
That that eventually
you have class yourself.
00:25:05
Sure.
00:25:05
And you either have something
that you're just going to hold on.
00:25:07
You know, I just I like my car
and I'm going to hold on to it for another
00:25:10
because we know these cars
run 200 miles.
00:25:13
No problem.
00:25:14
We know that they have most of the same
safety features as the current ones do.
00:25:19
If you already own one of these,
if you already own an Avalon,
00:25:22
if you already own a, you know,
hold on to it.
00:25:25
Yeah, don't spend that
55 grand on this car. That's.
00:25:27
But if you are the sort of person
who wants the latest
00:25:30
and greatest
and you want a car that is comfortable,
00:25:34
I mean, this is absolutely
I mean, this is not just it it's.
00:25:36
It is is both. Yes. Yeah, yeah.
00:25:40
Get one now.
00:25:40
Please keep buying them
so I can get one used in five years.
00:25:44
Yeah.
00:25:44
It's really it's quite an interesting
topic and quite a large topic too.
00:25:47
But just that idea of let's say
in this case Toyota designing a vehicle
00:25:52
so good
that you're not incentivized to replace it
00:25:55
when the new one comes out is both.
00:25:57
I mean, it's great
in the sense of consumerism and just like
00:26:00
not always needing to get the latest
and like, good with what you have.
00:26:04
And I think that's that's good.
00:26:06
On the other hand, if people
aren't getting into the latest safety
00:26:09
technology and crash safety
and all those things too,
00:26:12
because their their old car is sure,
you know, outlasting, so,
00:26:15
well, I don't know, it's an interesting
topic to go the iPhone problem.
00:26:18
Yeah.
00:26:19
It used to be
you got a new iPhone was wow,
00:26:21
look at all
these new things my phone can do.
00:26:23
And now it's I mean,
unless you get the folding one now it's,
00:26:26
a screen's a little brighter
and something's worse.
00:26:28
Two megapixels. More on the card, right?
00:26:30
Yeah. I used to follow, like,
00:26:31
every iPhone release, and I was, like,
so excited to go.
00:26:34
Like, I really care.
00:26:35
Anyway, I actually don't want.
00:26:37
No thank you. Exactly.
00:26:38
Is it paid off?
And what are they offering me?
00:26:40
A new one for free. Okay.
00:26:41
That's that's that's good.
00:26:43
So me I think back with the,
with the boxy Avalon when they went to
00:26:46
the more aerodynamic one,
I want to say it's like 1416 that era.
00:26:51
And it got stiff
and they tried to make it.
00:26:54
Try to make
they made the the Yardi Avalon and.
00:26:58
They made I.
00:26:58
Love seeing those on the road,
the ride worse. You know.
00:27:01
And that was the thing.
00:27:02
Like people
00:27:03
I remember sitting and talking about it
like, yes, hold on to that Avalon, don't
00:27:06
get the new one, etc., etc.
00:27:08
and it's almost like we're in
the same spot because it's marginal gains.
00:27:11
And unless they're, they're,
they're making some significant change.
00:27:14
Like what we got to be sporty. Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:18
You know, what else can you do.
00:27:20
I mean they're eking out the most fuel
economy already.
00:27:23
Life is sporty enough man. Is it.
00:27:25
And no I mean things are I mean sporty
I mean risk excitement.
00:27:29
There's already too much excitement
out there okay.
00:27:33
I just want my car
the right. Kind of excitement.
00:27:35
The wrong guys.
00:27:36
It's the wrong kind of excitement out
there.
00:27:38
Choose your excitement.
You're getting excitement.
00:27:40
We're getting excitement 24 seven.
Oh, God.
00:27:43
All I want is to just get into a car
and have it just kind of be a nice place
00:27:47
to relax. A warm cocoon.
00:27:49
Yeah. After a rough day of podcasting.
00:27:51
Yeah, I just
I just need to treat myself hard.
00:27:54
Yeah, I have the lucid gravity.
00:27:56
I know I need to get into a Lexus
now, and just.
00:27:58
I think I'm for. Massage in that car.
00:28:00
Really did a number on my.
00:28:01
So I'm going to ask
which one you should you guys would get.
00:28:04
But it sounds like maybe
the EV is right for you Keith.
00:28:07
Right. It's just total cocoon, right?
I don't know why.
00:28:09
I want to know where I, I'm
a little nervous about about that range.
00:28:14
But at the same time, if I had a, if I
were, if I had, if I had my mom's commute,
00:28:18
which is same distance
every day, never goes on road trips.
00:28:23
I would get the EV.
00:28:24
No, you know, hands down, no questions
asked.
00:28:27
Quite nice. For me.
00:28:28
My a round trip to my mom's house
and I'm doxing myself
00:28:33
and her, is like ten miles
more than the EV's total range.
00:28:39
Oh, really? Okay. Yeah.
00:28:40
And that's the only time I really,
aside from, you know, I walk everywhere.
00:28:44
I need to go around town. I drive.
00:28:45
But if I were, you know,
that specific road trip.
00:28:49
Yeah. Totally makes sense.
00:28:50
That's the same type of thing for me.
00:28:52
I mean, it's it's good.
00:28:53
It's like a sub 300 range,
you know, it's like.
00:28:56
New York in Boston, round trip
from where we are in central Connecticut.
00:28:59
In the summer. It. Right.
00:29:01
I mean, that's a type. Yeah.
00:29:02
Like the rainy week, cold weekend.
00:29:03
We had it like the range is dropping.
00:29:05
And then if I'm going to Boston and yes,
if I'm going to Boston from
00:29:09
central Connecticut
00:29:10
and it's the middle of the day, I'm coming
back in the early evening final stop.
00:29:13
Yeah.
00:29:14
I go up
there for a concert and it's midnight
00:29:17
when I'm getting in the car
and I'm getting to Sturbridge
00:29:20
or something, and at 1:00 in the morning
and have to like hope
00:29:23
the charger is working and the.
00:29:24
Stop on one of those apple green, yellow.
00:29:27
Green or the Panera Bread.
00:29:28
You know it's.
00:29:30
It's like and work is so much better.
00:29:32
And the it's so much better and it's got.
00:29:34
Yeah.
00:29:34
It's got Max so you know you're on
you have a even wider the,
00:29:39
you know, range of charges to choose from.
00:29:42
But at 130 in the morning,
the last thing I.
00:29:44
Want to do is like.
00:29:45
Drop 25 minutes to make sure I get home.
00:29:48
I may sleep through it,
you know, there we are.
00:29:51
It's electricity costs and our gas costs.
00:29:54
Oh, yeah. It's not easy to make it right.
00:29:55
An obvious choice necessarily.
00:29:57
It's not an obvious choice for anyone.
00:29:58
Although the EV is the better. It's
the driver's car.
00:30:01
It's, in this case, total.
00:30:03
Yeah, it's the more comfortable car.
00:30:04
But the handling is even a little bit
better with the lower kg
00:30:08
and all that stuff. Totally.
00:30:10
But like, we've
00:30:11
not new news for those paying attention
to car, like, the hybrid
00:30:15
makes the most sense for the most people,
at least at this stage. Right.
00:30:18
Most like. Right.
00:30:19
So we talked about this a little bit.
00:30:21
But before we wrap on the s,
just this idea that keeping your old car
00:30:25
because the new generation
is not necessarily as good.
00:30:28
We were in preparing for this,
able to rattle off quite
00:30:32
a few recent models we've tested where
I can say you want them in that bucket.
00:30:36
Yeah. Through that window.
00:30:38
What color is it?
00:30:40
I mean, the one that really jumped out
to me and I, you know, not
00:30:43
picking on any in particular necessarily,
but like the Kq5, that's the one that's
00:30:48
like I think we can all probably agree
that the old one was kind of better.
00:30:52
Better, right? Yeah. Had a volume knob.
00:30:54
I mean. Yeah.
00:30:55
How do I know
there are better things about the new car?
00:30:58
Do not get me wrong.
00:30:59
Just as a whole package
for the average person buying this car.
00:31:04
But then, yeah,
we just talked to Avalon and.
00:31:06
Yes, potentially. Right.
00:31:07
That old Avalon
is, is quite an attractive thing.
00:31:10
But again, not because the new one's worse
necessarily,
00:31:13
but it's like the old one was so good.
00:31:14
So that situation's a little different.
00:31:16
X3 was another one that.
00:31:17
Yeah, the new one just feels
so it feels less special inside.
00:31:20
Yeah. Right. Yeah.
00:31:21
So we're kind of seeing this trend for.
00:31:23
Me it's if it if it passes the new
00:31:26
IHS the latest IHS set of tests.
00:31:30
That's all you need to do for me.
00:31:32
I don't need anything newer than that.
00:31:35
I just want it to be the top safety pick.
00:31:37
Plus as of you know if.
00:31:40
But you're buying day.
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
00:31:42
And that's that's
what I, that's what I care about.
00:31:45
But other than safety there is not much
that is exciting me other than safety.
00:31:48
And I mean the fuel economy gains.
00:31:50
We already have them.
00:31:51
It's just automakers choosing
whether to use them or not.
00:31:54
Yeah.
Where to where to put it. So yeah. Yeah.
00:31:57
But you know other than that
there's no excuse for car
00:31:59
to be getting less than 40 miles
a gallon these days.
00:32:02
And you know we already
we already have that.
00:32:05
Sure.
00:32:05
So it's for me it's the safety.
00:32:08
But yeah it's probably the biggest.
00:32:10
Yeah.
00:32:10
And reliability depending on the model
you're looking at and things like that.
00:32:14
But yeah. No I'm with you.
00:32:15
We, I think we need a a very short
Keith's checklist for buying cars.
00:32:19
It's just one, one criteria.
00:32:21
Does it. I'm getting.
00:32:22
I think I'm getting old.
00:32:24
No, I think it's actually
really interesting.
00:32:26
Yes, I know, sorry. You've already got an.
00:32:27
That's a really interesting filter
that people probably don't often
00:32:30
think too hard about is like,
oh, let me just
00:32:32
let me make sure that this car passes
this crash test as my first criteria
00:32:36
and then and then go through
it makes all the sense. Yeah.
00:32:39
So all right. So that is the,
00:32:42
No, sorry.
00:32:43
Sorry I took all my fault. I apologize.
00:32:46
I tried to do it
just at the moment here changing.
00:32:49
Okay, so that's the Lexus.
00:32:51
Yes. Hybrid. Definitely.
00:32:52
Make sure to
00:32:53
keep an eye out for the review video
when it goes up in our full testing.
00:32:57
You know, all the results and everything
as we put it through the test program.
00:33:00
Check it out on Coorg.
00:33:02
You have lots of questions.
00:33:03
In an era of AI generated answers,
it's important to know who you can trust
00:33:08
ACR and tap into thousands of product
ratings,
00:33:10
safety investigations, and expert advice.
00:33:13
So we are going to move on
to our question.
00:33:16
Part of the show.
00:33:17
So don't forget to send us
all of your questions to talking Cars
00:33:21
at Consumer Dawg.
00:33:23
The the address
there has changed recently.
00:33:25
So if you're routinely
sending in questions, definitely
00:33:27
make sure you send to the right one there
that's talking cars at consumer talk
00:33:31
trying to get a whole wardrobe.
00:33:32
Yeah that's right
our swag. Send any questions.
00:33:35
Yeah yeah that's right.
00:33:36
One of the zoo bars come out
I want to send a question for those
00:33:39
who would like to know
who has the most shirts out there,
00:33:42
right from sending in their question, sexy
Dave probably just knows that.
00:33:47
But yeah, to that point,
00:33:48
we will send you a, a shirt
or something like that when you
00:33:52
your question gets used on the show
and we definitely like video questions.
00:33:55
And really, really appreciate
everybody listening and sending those in.
00:33:58
So our first one is John Oswald
from Wichita, Kansas.
00:34:03
And he says, I recall hearing
on the podcast to avoid buying a vehicle
00:34:07
the first model year of a new vehicle
generation to avoid bugs and flaws
00:34:11
that are fixed in the subsequent years.
00:34:12
What about buying a new vehicle at the
very end of the first year of production?
00:34:17
Well, the manufacturers have fixed
00:34:18
the known bugs and flaws
over the course of the production year.
00:34:21
Or do these
00:34:22
get saved to incorporated into the second
or even third production years?
00:34:27
A person would hope
the problems are corrected
00:34:29
throughout the production year,
but maybe not.
00:34:31
So I thought this was quite an interesting
take on the kind of perennial CR advice,
00:34:36
which is yeah, even though we do it here,
don't necessarily, if you can avoid it,
00:34:40
buying that first model year
of a new generation or new vehicle.
00:34:43
Right.
00:34:44
So this is a little like finer tooth come.
00:34:47
What about within.
00:34:48
How soon can I get it? Basically.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
00:34:50
So, John.
00:34:51
John's an early adopter.
That's John Oswald.
00:34:54
Early adopter downlink of
I don't know. Yeah.
00:34:56
Sometimes,
00:34:58
it it's a great question
00:34:59
because I think it depends on the problem
that they're fixing.
00:35:02
Cause, you know, if it's a okay
manufacturing line inefficiency,
00:35:06
that's one thing
that could be relatively quickly changed.
00:35:09
You know, they're realizing, like Bob
who installed the dashes was installing
00:35:14
the windshield first,
and they were supposed to do the dash
00:35:16
first, like, oh, okay,
we can make a change, right?
00:35:18
Fine. That changed with Vin number X.
00:35:21
If it's a supplier related issue,
that's a bigger thing
00:35:24
because that takes more time
to track down.
00:35:26
That takes more time to address fine.
00:35:29
Negotiating back and forth
with the supplier.
00:35:32
You know, really.
00:35:32
And they have to fix their process
that new parts have to get in.
00:35:35
So that that's a quick take,
is that it's a really hard thing to say.
00:35:38
Yeah. Is it first. Year? Is it.
00:35:40
It could even be mid second year
depending on the problem.
00:35:43
Sure. Totally.
00:35:44
Yeah.
00:35:45
And I think if it's a software related
thing that's maybe a little different.
00:35:48
Right.
00:35:48
You might only because it could get fixed
with an over-the-air update
00:35:51
depending on the car or something like that, or even just going to the dealer. But
00:35:55
yeah.
00:35:55
So totally
agree. It depends on the problem.
00:35:57
But, Keith, what do you think?
00:35:58
I mean, I think even sometimes
even in the safety world, we see,
00:36:02
the crash tests will be different
after a half model year because the car
00:36:06
will be crash tested after it's
already on sale, and they'll find out.
00:36:10
Oh, geez.
00:36:11
We needed to move some piece of
of something in the side impact system.
00:36:15
We needed to change the mechanics
of of, of a seatbelt.
00:36:19
Ever.
00:36:19
We need to tweak something ever
so slightly, and the car
00:36:22
will go from being marginal to good,
just like that Rav4 or.
00:36:26
Camry. Had that. Yeah,
there were a few of them.
00:36:28
Was like a point five because yeah,
the new it just did not pass.
00:36:32
Yeah. Just ten years. Ago
there was a Subaru that had that.
00:36:35
It happens just every so often.
00:36:36
Rivian
I think for a little while had something.
00:36:39
And I think that's you know,
the other thing is that it's hard to tell
00:36:42
because cars
sit on the lot for a long time.
00:36:46
So unless you're looking at you know, okay
when did the actual production start.
00:36:50
You'd have to be.
00:36:50
And John, I imagine
if you're watching talking cars this you
00:36:54
you're probably this is something you're
probably already doing and able to do.
00:36:57
But you can
look at the Vin and get a sense.
00:36:59
You can look in the door jamb,
you can see how long it's been in the lot.
00:37:02
But just because a car is available
doesn't mean that it it,
00:37:06
you know, just because a car's for sale
now doesn't mean
00:37:08
that it wasn't made much earlier
in the year. Sure. Yeah.
00:37:11
And also, I think it depends on the car
and the manufacturer.
00:37:14
So like, we all remember what happened
with the last blazer.
00:37:19
EV, you know, there were all, you know,
the car was delayed already
00:37:22
when it first came out. It was.
00:37:24
Oh, geez,
I I'm worried about this platform for all.
00:37:28
And now.
00:37:29
Yeah, those cars, the Ultium cars are seem
to be doing seem to be doing fine.
00:37:34
Yeah, but they took better.
00:37:36
Yeah, it took a while.
00:37:37
Yeah.
00:37:37
The the new Lexus S, I would say.
00:37:41
I think you'd probably be safe
to buy that in the, you know, these cars
00:37:45
with this with the brands
with a history of focusing on reliability.
00:37:48
Yeah.
00:37:48
And where their model year
or even generational changes are less
00:37:53
throwing it all away and starting again.
00:37:54
It's it's more of a refinement.
00:37:56
Right.
00:37:56
We see that from the Japanese brands
in particular.
00:37:59
Yeah.
00:38:00
Well one thing I, I mean, Keith,
00:38:01
so you write the predominant number
of our recalls and I'm not going to start
00:38:05
getting into conflating reliability
and recalls and such.
00:38:07
Yeah.
00:38:08
Going through the documentation, you see
00:38:11
the amount of time it takes
00:38:14
from identifying
the problem gets interesting
00:38:16
to going to, oh, oh, now there's a,
there's a warranty with the capture fleet.
00:38:20
And then they have to check that
and they go back.
00:38:21
I mean you could see a recall.
00:38:22
You're like, well a year and a half ago,
they first diagnose the problem
00:38:26
and now they're finally coming out
with the safety.
00:38:27
I would say that's a. Safety. Fix.
00:38:29
So they call these things 573 reports.
00:38:31
I would watch a version of Forensic Files
or like a true crime podcast
00:38:36
about like when something happened
with casting an engine block
00:38:40
on the Toyota Camry,
sort of on July 1st, 2024.
00:38:45
But Keith Morrison, you got to get.
There was the voice.
00:38:48
There was the temperature
00:38:49
was mis calibrated
by an employee in that Aichi plant.
00:38:52
Yeah, yeah. Nobody noticed.
00:38:54
And then you know, six months later
somebody said, you know, you know,
00:38:59
John Oswald was driving down the highway
in Wichita, Kansas, and his car
00:39:02
began to emit smoke.
00:39:04
And then. It would all be traced.
00:39:05
Back all the way through. And it's amazing
because you're right.
00:39:08
You read it through
and it's like someone and they have to do.
00:39:10
Even when they know what the problem is,
they have to figure out why the problem is
00:39:14
so they can fix it.
00:39:15
So you have all these automakers
that are like, there's a problem
00:39:19
and they have to figure out how to fix it
because you can't just
00:39:22
say there's a problem.
00:39:23
So yeah, absolutely.
00:39:25
And sometimes it is
as simple as a cable should be routed.
00:39:29
Over instead of.
00:39:30
100, you know, the vowel
instead of underneath the tube.
00:39:33
And, but those things can be serious
because depending on
00:39:36
what it takes to fix that problem,
you might have to take an engine out or.
00:39:40
Right?
00:39:40
I mean, it can be it can sound simple,
but it's not necessarily simple.
00:39:45
In the in the grand scheme.
00:39:46
Of can we do a spin off of of the podcast
00:39:49
where I just have
I have true, true recall stories.
00:39:52
Great.
Oh yeah. All right. Great love. Excellent.
00:39:54
I do recall we can.
Do a lot of Ken Burns effect. Yeah.
00:39:56
You definitely make a pretty dramatic.
00:39:58
Oh yeah. Oh I. Love this.
00:40:00
I do think this advice weather
I mean first of all any waiting is good.
00:40:03
Waiting whether you wait as long as you
possibly can in that first model year
00:40:07
builds character
ideally later with a built character.
00:40:11
Yeah.
00:40:13
It's more important now than ever, right?
00:40:14
As these cars are getting more
and more complex.
00:40:16
There's so much like chaos
and kind of confusion
00:40:19
in the market of which direction
it's going to go,
00:40:21
which technology is this and that,
that giving the automakers
00:40:24
as long as possible to figure
it out is just in your best interest.
00:40:27
And I will add to all this, too,
especially with a new model introduction.
00:40:31
The longer you wait.
00:40:33
Reliability aside, they figure out
the popular options and things like that.
00:40:37
You may end up getting a trim
that has a better options
00:40:40
package later on too, right?
00:40:41
As they figure out,
okay, maybe we didn't need a
00:40:44
we didn't want to package this thing
with that, our other option or whatever.
00:40:47
So it might.
00:40:48
Not have been ready. Totally.
00:40:50
That's how we have to wait to get cars in
because the options we want, you know,
00:40:54
everyone else has their reviews up
and we're like, but we want to test.
00:40:57
It's not worth settling for.
00:40:58
Yeah, in my opinion,
they make bizarro changes
00:41:01
that for the for the positive part way
through that kind of come out of the blue.
00:41:05
I mean look at Audi
with their steering wheel.
00:41:07
All of a sudden they're like we're giving
you back the scroll wheel like yeah okay.
00:41:11
Yeah.
00:41:12
So it came out partway
through the model year and
00:41:16
huzzah.
00:41:16
But 26.5 model year right. Yeah.
00:41:19
So I mean.
00:41:19
You some of you found a warehouse
full of steering wheel rocker switches.
00:41:22
Yeah.
You know, but you're just like, oh, okay.
00:41:24
Well,
that's actually a positive, you know?
00:41:26
So by waiting, you know,
you're not going to get something like,
00:41:28
oh great,
I have the slider that doesn't work.
00:41:30
But it to your point though,
early on it's, it's track record.
00:41:34
Look at the manufacturers do that.
00:41:37
You know, your your Toyota's your Honda's,
00:41:41
you know, Lexus Acuras and such,
00:41:43
that the just
they just have a better track record of
00:41:46
of launching cars
that maybe are reliable and average.
00:41:49
You could take that risk
at the end of the model year.
00:41:51
But sometimes Toyota Honda
is going to drop you a civic redesign
00:41:56
where after one year changes
a wholly revamped year, they just blow.
00:42:00
The Toyota in the tundra.
00:42:02
I was going to say even these companies
that we're talking about are not perfect
00:42:05
in that regard at all.
00:42:06
The tundra, huge issues going in,
00:42:08
you know, new powertrain
and new generation and all that stuff. So,
00:42:11
even there, it would have paid off to
to wait or buy something else.
00:42:14
Maybe.
00:42:15
But so we have another question this week
also,
00:42:18
and it's Jim
and he sent us a video question.
00:42:21
And so let's go over to him
I talking cars.
00:42:25
I have for you a question
that some might consider
00:42:28
a bit macabre,
but I'm going to ask it anyhow.
00:42:32
I have two grandkids, and any time
I take them, any place in the car,
00:42:37
they get strapped in to their car seats.
00:42:41
But that made me think about when I.
00:42:43
Was growing up.
00:42:44
My parents had a 1963
Chevrolet Impala station wagon, and I.
00:42:49
Have. Seven brothers and sisters.
00:42:51
And so if we were to go to the root
beer stand.
00:42:55
We all piled into.
00:42:56
The station wagon
in. At least 3 or 4 of us.
00:42:59
Ended.
00:42:59
Up sitting way in the.
00:43:00
Back where there were two
like little bench.
00:43:04
Seats back there that we sat on.
00:43:06
Now, I don't recall any seat belts
of any kind.
00:43:09
In fact, what I remember is if my parents
had us turned sharply or maybe.
00:43:14
Hit the brakes.
00:43:15
We all went tumbling around back there.
00:43:18
Now, was it safe?
00:43:19
Probably not.
00:43:20
My question is today.
00:43:23
If a child is.
00:43:25
Securely fastened in a child safety seat,
how many.
00:43:29
Kids are seriously.
00:43:31
Injured or killed in car accidents?
00:43:32
Let's say for the year 2025.
00:43:34
Where there. Should be
a full year of data.
00:43:38
Compared to like. 1963, where there were.
00:43:41
No child seats.
00:43:42
And even if the car did have seatbelts,
almost nobody buckled their seatbelt.
00:43:48
I'm just curious.
00:43:49
I know it's a strange question,
but I enjoy watching your podcast and
00:43:53
I hope you can answer my question.
00:43:55
Thanks a lot.
00:43:56
All right. Thank you, Jim,
very much for your question.
00:43:58
So none of us are really the best people
to answer Jim's question.
00:44:01
So I'm actually going to throw it over
00:44:02
to Doctor Emily Thomas,
who is our resident safety expert.
00:44:07
She works on child seats and really
is all things safety at CR for cars.
00:44:12
So she is the best person here
and probably in general to answer this.
00:44:16
So let's see what she has to say.
Hi Jim, thanks for the question.
00:44:20
You are correct that
00:44:22
there has been a lot of changes in child
passenger safety since 1963.
00:44:26
So before I go into the numbers,
I do want to express that there
00:44:31
isn't really comparable data
for us to compare between the 1960s
00:44:35
and now, just because our driving culture
has changed so much. Back
00:44:39
then, people weren't using their vehicles
with their families quite as much.
00:44:43
The vehicle Miles
traveled is significantly higher today
00:44:47
than it was back in the 60s.
00:44:50
And so while we have numbers
and they're relevant and they're true,
00:44:54
you have to also take into context
the driving culture,
00:44:58
how much people are on the roads,
how often
00:45:00
they were traveling with their children,
things like that.
00:45:02
When you're comparing the numbers.
00:45:04
That being said,
according to the National Safety Council,
00:45:07
in 1963, there were 5054 child
00:45:10
occupant deaths and traffic crashes
that were ages 14 and under.
00:45:14
The most recent data
that we have is actually from 2024,
00:45:18
and it show that there was 550 child
occupant deaths.
00:45:22
There were less than 13 years old,
a third of which were unrestrained.
00:45:25
So to your point,
the chances of survival are much higher
00:45:29
if they're properly restrained,
like your grandchildren seem to be.
00:45:32
Data from the National Highway Traffic
Safety Administration tells us that
00:45:36
in passenger cars, for infants
that are under one years old
00:45:39
and properly restrained in infancy, there
is a 71% reduction in fatal injury risk.
00:45:45
And for kids
that are just one through four,
00:45:48
if they're properly restrained
in a car seat,
00:45:50
that their fatal injury risk
reduction is 54% in a crash.
00:45:54
So there is lots of data out there
that shows the effectiveness of car seats
00:45:59
and how much they've improved
and reduced child death
00:46:02
in car crashes over the years.
00:46:05
So he's doing a great job as a grandpa
and keeping your grandkids safe.
00:46:09
All right.
Thank you, Emily, for your answer.
00:46:10
And, John,
I think you actually had a little bit
00:46:12
that you wanted to add on to, to Emily
said there.
00:46:15
Yeah, I mean, I the numbers are super
interesting and it just it,
00:46:19
you know,
00:46:20
concerns me when, when just to see things
like one.
00:46:23
Third.
00:46:24
Of the children of the 550 children
who died in 2024 were unrestrained,
00:46:28
you know, and I get.
00:46:28
Yeah, I, I get challenges as a parent.
00:46:31
I have two kids. They're not
teenagers are nowhere near car seats.
00:46:34
But I get it. But it it.
00:46:37
Just shows like, look at these numbers,
1963 5054 child occupant deaths.
00:46:42
And now it's 10% of that number
through safety.
00:46:45
And just if you
if you're some kind of safety doubter
00:46:49
for whatever reason, the stark numbers
just show like how safe cars are today.
00:46:54
Yeah, but how safe cars are today
when you use the safety feature
00:46:57
and yeah, it's just it's a huge
take away. Yeah.
00:46:59
And I think that's and that's despite
the differences in car culture, as Emily
00:47:03
put it in driving culture. Right.
And how the cars are being used. So.
00:47:06
And I was driven. Yeah. Yeah, totally.
00:47:08
And I think we can all agree
that we should be giving, you know,
00:47:12
the kids the best possible chance
when you put them into a vehicle. Yep.
00:47:15
So yeah, using
these things makes a lot of sense.
00:47:18
And using them properly. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
00:47:20
It is hard to get a kid into a rear
facing seat when they're being or through.
00:47:23
It's hard to make them
want to use the booster seats.
00:47:25
Actually, when they were teenagers.
00:47:27
You know, let alone adults.
00:47:29
You know, I ride with my parents,
but it is worth it.
00:47:32
It's a it's a struggle,
but it is worth it.
00:47:34
Sure makes sense. Cool.
Thank you for that.
00:47:37
All right.
00:47:37
So that's going to do it for this
week's episode.
00:47:40
Definitely
make sure you tune in for the next one.
00:47:42
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00:47:45
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