On this episode we share our first impressions of the 2026 Toyota RAV4 Woodland, the new hybrid SUV with all-terrain tires, extra ground clearance, and a more outdoorsy look. Is it a smart upgrade for rough roads and city potholes—or mostly a styling package? Plus, we answer an audience question about which dealership add-ons are worth considering and which ones you should skip.
Join CR at https://CR.org/joinviaYT to access our comprehensive ratings for items you use every day. CR is a mission-driven, independent, nonprofit organization.
SHOW NOTES
-----------------------------------
00:00 - Intro
00:16 Overview: 2026 Toyota RAV4 Woodland
02:10 What Is an "Off-Road" SUV Trim?
05:08 How the RAV4 Woodland Drives
06:00 Hybrid Powertrain, Performance & Fuel Economy
09:46 All-Terrain Tires: Handling, Noise & Ride
14:15 Driver Comfort
15:49 Infotainment and Controls
18:20 Driver-Monitoring System
20:31 Woodland Styling
23:59 Is the Woodland Worth the Extra Cost?
29:02 Audience Question: Are Dealer Add-Ons Worth It?
----------------------------------
Test Results: 2026 Toyota RAV4
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/toyota/rav4/2026/overview/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
Who Makes the Most Reliable New Cars?
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
How to Find the Best SUV
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/suvs/buying-guide/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
Which Brands Make the Best Cars?
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/cars-driving/which-car-brands-make-the-best-vehicles-a6159221985/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
7 Questions to Ask at the Dealership
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/buying-a-car/questions-to-ask-before-you-buy-a-car-a6387933582/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
How to Avoid Unnecessary Car-Buying Fees
https://www.consumerreports.org/money/fees-billing/how-to-avoid-car-buying-fees-a7209896255/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
Just Say No to These Car Dealership Extras
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/buying-a-car/just-say-no-to-these-car-dealership-extras-a9471188276/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
TalkingCars@consumer.org
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/cars-driving/talking-cars-podcast-archive-a1439738009/?EXTKEY=YSOCIAL_YT
-----------------------------------
Consumer Reports experts: Mike Monticello, Mike Crossen, Jeff Bartlett
00:00:11
Hi, everybody.
00:00:11
Welcome to another episode
unlike Monticello.
00:00:13
I'm Michael Crossan and I'm Jeff Bartlett.
00:00:16
So today
we're going to spend most of the episode
00:00:18
giving our first impressions
of the Toyota Rav4 woodland.
00:00:22
And we usually start these off
00:00:23
with kind of three things
you need to know about this vehicle.
00:00:27
And the first one is what's a woodland?
00:00:29
Well, it's
basically the rav4's off road trim.
00:00:32
So that means it has all terrain tires,
unique front end, elevated ride height,
00:00:37
a tow hitch receiver, rigid Industries
fog lights and some interior changes.
00:00:41
And and it does have the ride height
really honestly comes from the tires.
00:00:45
Goes from 8.1in to 8.4in.
00:00:48
The second thing is, powertrain wise, it's
this the second.
00:00:50
This is the second crossing
I the counting up how I was counting
00:00:54
the the lift difference there,
which is 3/10 of an inch,
00:00:57
powertrain,
basically identical to the regular Rav4,
00:01:00
which means that as a 2.5l four cylinder
engine with two electric motors
00:01:05
and an electronic
continuously variable transmission,
00:01:07
and the woodland comes standard
with all wheel drive.
00:01:09
So that means that has 236 horsepower
instead of the 226 horsepower
00:01:13
that the front wheel drive
Rav4 is come with.
00:01:15
And the third thing you need to know about
it is that there is a fuel economy
00:01:18
hit with these, with these off road
kind of oriented trims
00:01:22
in this case, because they're basically
a little less efficient.
00:01:26
So instead of the 41 miles
per gallon combined that the EPA rates
00:01:30
the regular Rav4, XLE, premium
all wheel drive that we already tested at,
00:01:34
you're going to get 38 mpg
combined by the EPA.
00:01:37
So, and now we did buy this vehicle
for our test program.
00:01:42
The base price of the Rav4 2026
Rav4 woodland is $39.
00:01:49
Basically $940 and options
00:01:51
including a power moonroof
and then a destination fee of $1.
00:01:55
And we're looking at a total purchase
price of our test vehicle,
00:01:58
a $42.
00:02:01
Now we're going to get into,
this the entire vehicle, really,
00:02:05
whether, you know,
00:02:06
you've seen our regular Rav4 video or not,
we're going to talk about the whole car.
00:02:10
And we're going to get into the nitty
gritty of, of what's the difference
00:02:13
between a,
you know, a woodland and a regular Rav4.
00:02:16
But I want to start with, what exactly
should we even be calling these things?
00:02:20
Because this is kind of a of an
I don't want to say maybe a fad,
00:02:23
but this is something in these sort of off
road trims are kind of
00:02:27
becoming a lot more popular
the last few years,
00:02:30
whether it's, you know, Toyota's woodland
Subaru has wilderness,
00:02:33
Honda has Trail Sport,
Hyundai has SRT Pro.
00:02:37
And so they're definitely gaining
in popularity.
00:02:39
But like Jeff,
what should we even call them?
00:02:41
Like inside baseball.
00:02:43
You know, in the industry
we tend to refer to them as soft roaders.
00:02:46
I'm not sure people know what that means.
00:02:48
Are should we call them those off
road, off road oriented?
00:02:51
What's the best thing
to refer to these things as?
00:02:53
I'm not sure I have a firm answer on that.
00:02:55
We have been calling them off
road soft riders here, right?
00:02:58
In part because it indicates that,
you know, they have off road desires.
00:03:03
But here's the functionality.
00:03:06
You know, it's really
00:03:07
just slightly elevated from a,
you know, the typical models, right?
00:03:11
These are mostly vehicles that have,
00:03:15
become the equivalent of sneakers
transforming into hiking shoes.
00:03:19
They look cool.
00:03:20
You know,
00:03:21
maybe you could go a little
00:03:22
bit further than you would otherwise,
but they're really not meant for off road
00:03:25
exploring
the way you think of a Jeep or a Bronco.
00:03:28
And that's fine,
because most people don't even do it.
00:03:30
If you have a Jeep or a Bronco. It's true.
00:03:32
But emerging as a class, you know,
I think it's real easy to become cynical
00:03:38
in terms of a lot of these trims
seem like they're great profit drivers.
00:03:44
You know, they'll put $5
worth of kit on it and charge ten,
00:03:47
but some of them actually seem
to be pretty reasonably priced.
00:03:51
And that extra little ability or even,
you know, the hint, extra
00:03:56
ground clearance, maybe perfect, depending
where you live, if you live
00:04:00
in, you know, a more rural area
place with terrible roads.
00:04:03
Yeah, that's a good point.
00:04:04
So they have the place, might be tempting
to go back to the old joke
00:04:09
of calling a mall crawlers, which is,
you know, the joke people have about,
00:04:14
like Jeep Wranglers that are so modified
and never go off road.
00:04:19
Right.
00:04:20
Software owners kind of works for me, but
I haven't heard it outside the industry.
00:04:23
What about you, Michael?
00:04:24
So I mean, it certainly I would
I think a trend is maybe what this is.
00:04:28
Right.
00:04:29
Because it's sort of in a way,
even this just comes and goes,
00:04:31
you know, throughout time,
in high school,
00:04:35
my brother had an s S10 bar,
so was the off road trim of the S10.
00:04:38
So again,
this stuff just keeps coming around.
00:04:40
It's sort of like fashion,
but I would call them off road,
00:04:44
but I would spell it with
with an eye on the end.
00:04:47
I like that. Okay.
00:04:47
You know, for for whatever y you mean.
00:04:50
Yeah. Correct. Okay. Yeah.
00:04:51
Let's get into what
it's really like to drive this thing.
00:04:54
And, Mike, I'm
going to start with you, like,
00:04:57
if if someone were to get into our Rav4
woodland, is it going to feel like
00:05:02
you just purely from the driving
experience, is it going to feel like
00:05:05
a noticeably different vehicle
to the regular Rav4 straight away?
00:05:09
Not really.
00:05:09
The ride height isn't all the difference.
00:05:11
You're not going to notice that
00:05:13
in terms of seat height with access
and things like that.
00:05:16
It's basically a visual thing.
00:05:17
When you walk up to the car,
00:05:18
seems a little more substantial
because you have the all terrain tires,
00:05:21
but when you drive it, it's pretty,
pretty similar.
00:05:24
And the rav4's are pretty good.
They've got decent power.
00:05:26
I mean, this one, yeah, this fuel
00:05:27
economy suffers a little bit,
but 38 is still pretty good out of,
00:05:31
you know, an SUV of this size
that's, all wheel drive.
00:05:35
It is a little louder
because it sits a little higher.
00:05:37
So you're up in the wind a little more,
the tires are a little bit louder.
00:05:40
You do get a little bit of delay
00:05:42
with steering, because of just sort
of all the extra meat on those tires.
00:05:46
It takes a moment for, for them
to kind of react to your steering inputs.
00:05:49
But I think your average
probably Rav4 buyer wouldn't really notice
00:05:53
a big difference between driving,
this trim versus
00:05:56
really any other trim of, of a Rav4.
00:06:00
And, and so just that, I mean,
that includes the powertrain, right?
00:06:03
I mean, because we know
that's basically unchanged.
00:06:06
And so is that a good thing
or a bad thing?
00:06:08
Do you like this, this,
hybrid powertrain or, you know,
00:06:12
what are some kind of highs
and lows of this powertrain?
00:06:15
Well, I think this hybrid powertrains
definitely improvement
00:06:18
over the previous one.
00:06:19
It doesn't feel as strained.
00:06:23
The previous one was a bit
gravelly or noisy.
00:06:26
And when you pushed it a bit,
it sounded like it was protesting.
00:06:29
Yeah,
this one still has a hint of that kind
00:06:32
of course character
that hasn't completely gone away,
00:06:35
but the difference is the way it responds,
00:06:39
both in power delivery and in the audio
it feels like has verb verve.
00:06:44
It's eager to go. Yeah.
00:06:46
So in a way, it went from being kind
of disappointing in a nuisance
00:06:50
to almost adding a little bit of,
core sporty character to it.
00:06:55
So I think that's an improvement.
00:06:58
Certainly
the fuel economy gains are great.
00:07:01
And whenever I consider, you know,
this kind of evolving
00:07:05
trend of engines
are getting a little louder
00:07:07
and they're getting smaller
and working harder.
00:07:09
What's the trade off right here?
00:07:12
The really isn't
00:07:13
the performance is a little bit better
and the fuel economy is better.
00:07:16
Right?
00:07:17
I went as a buyer except for the woodland,
which gets a little worse.
00:07:20
But yeah but but I well the part of that
still row and stuff with the roof rack.
00:07:24
It's funny because I agree that I think
that this as a, as a hybrid generation,
00:07:29
whatever I do feel I agree with you
that it is, a little bit better in
00:07:33
just about every way than the, the,
the last Rav4 hybrid.
00:07:37
But I will say kind of going off
in a little bit of a tangent,
00:07:40
we also have a Lexus ES hybrid right now,
00:07:43
and I don't know if either one of you
has driven that yet, but I have,
00:07:46
and in my opinion, that's the way
all Toyota hybrids should be.
00:07:50
Because if you
when you drive that thing, you're like,
00:07:52
so the bump that you feel
when the gas engine turns
00:07:55
on, it's noticeable in the Rav4. Yes.
00:07:57
It's less noticeable than it used to be,
but it's not like it's unobtrusive.
00:08:01
It's there especially you know,
this is we're talking low speeds.
00:08:04
So you take off from a stop,
you have that nice EV shove like most
00:08:07
all hybrids, and then the gas engine
turns on and especially at lower speeds
00:08:11
and lower speeds with a harder throttle
pedal, you're going to feel that bump.
00:08:15
And the Lexus,
you barely feel that at all.
00:08:17
The engine's quieter.
00:08:18
And that's the other thing,
is that, you know,
00:08:21
because it uses an electronic
continuously variable transmission
00:08:24
when you're going up a long hill, it's
the revs are going to climb
00:08:27
and they're going to stay
until you back off the throttle pedal
00:08:31
or something like a Honda Hybrid
typically is a little better.
00:08:35
They actually do the simulated upshifts.
00:08:36
I know people are going to yell at me,
simulated upshifts are dumb, whatever.
00:08:40
Everyone has their opinion,
00:08:41
but I like it when an engine isn't
screaming at me the whole time.
00:08:44
And this one does get loud when you
push it a little bit, or on a long hill,
00:08:48
because it doesn't do
those simulated upshifts.
00:08:50
Toyota's hybrid four cylinder
has been loud for quite some time now,
00:08:53
and you do get some vibrations through
the steering wheel, through the floor.
00:08:57
All that said, I agree
it's definitely better.
00:08:59
And it's not like I wouldn't
say don't go by it, but just be aware
00:09:02
that this is not the quietest powertrain
ever.
00:09:05
Yeah, absolutely.
00:09:06
And I mean,
00:09:07
Toyota is always going for fuel
economy is as their number one
00:09:10
where Honda I think has a little bit
more of that sort of fun of driving thing.
00:09:15
They put those shifts in there.
00:09:17
Just sort of the mapping of
when the, the EV hands over to the ice
00:09:20
and things
like that, it's for a little bit
00:09:22
more of a pleasurable experience
rather than all that fuel economy.
00:09:26
So, you know,
if you're interested in the fuel economy,
00:09:28
definitely look at Toyota's and
and we'll we're splitting hairs here too.
00:09:31
Like it's it's a little loud,
00:09:32
but it's not crazy loud
and certainly better than the last one
00:09:35
and better than one before it
and all of that.
00:09:36
So, I think all in all,
they did a good job.
00:09:38
I agree, and you mentioned handling Mike.
00:09:41
And Jeff,
you can certainly weigh in here as well.
00:09:44
I agree that I think some people
might not notice it at all.
00:09:46
I think you're absolutely they might
not notice there's any difference.
00:09:49
But if you're if you're
00:09:50
if you're really kind of trying to pay
attention, you'll see that,
00:09:53
you know, the steering feedback.
00:09:54
There's a little less steering feedback.
00:09:56
It just I think because those
I don't know if it's the, the,
00:09:59
the taller chunks of the tread blocks,
they kind of like a little squishy
00:10:03
or soft to the corners
and the limits are a little bit lower.
00:10:07
And so you're going to,
if you're kind of pushing a little bit
00:10:10
hard, you're going to get into
electronic stability control sooner.
00:10:13
And it's just not going to feel
quite as sharp.
00:10:16
And also sort of staying with
we were just talking about noise
00:10:20
is that you're going to know I don't
I think honestly, where you notice
00:10:23
the tire noise most is through
sustained corners.
00:10:26
And tell me if you disagree,
that's fine. That's true.
00:10:28
But I didn't notice it too much, you know,
because like, say all terrain tires on.
00:10:32
I know everyone loves when I talk about
my old 2000 Toyota Tacoma,
00:10:35
those all terrain tires allowed. Yeah.
00:10:37
I mean, they are just loud
because these are truck all terrain
00:10:39
tires versus
these are SUV all terrain tires.
00:10:42
These ones I don't really notice
that much of an increase
00:10:45
in tire noise, just regular driving.
00:10:46
But when you go through a sustained corner
you hear a load of one side.
00:10:50
More weight on more all terrain tire.
00:10:51
I'm again
00:10:52
still no reason to not buy it,
00:10:53
but just be aware
that those things are there, right?
00:10:55
But of course, one big difference
between this and your truck beyond
00:10:59
the years is the Rav4 is fairly
well insulated.
00:11:03
Yeah. How true.
00:11:05
That's true.
00:11:05
It probably isn't the case with the
not the pickup truck.
00:11:08
And then when we look at ride,
00:11:11
this was something that, I'll be honest,
when we did our several podcasts
00:11:16
back, we talked about the kind of
00:11:17
how we got a whole bunch of these
that we borrowed from the automakers.
00:11:20
These sort of off road oriented
trims are off roading.
00:11:23
Yeah, with an IHI.
00:11:24
And one of the things I think we
maybe weren't necessarily expecting,
00:11:28
maybe we should have expected, but we
00:11:30
I don't think we did
00:11:30
was that when you get these taller
sidewalls
00:11:32
and that's
where we should have thought about it,
00:11:34
you get a little bit more bump absorption
in certain situations.
00:11:37
The suspension on most of these
is barely changed or not changed at all.
00:11:40
But we did notice.
00:11:42
Oh wow. Actually.
00:11:42
So it's not all trade offs right?
00:11:45
You're actually getting some positive
besides your your better off
00:11:48
road grip and in some cases
slightly better snow grip as well.
00:11:52
With these alternate tires,
you're actually,
00:11:53
certain types of bumps like I noticed,
especially potholes.
00:11:56
This thing,
00:11:57
you know, absorbs those a little bit
better than the regular all season
00:12:01
tires on the Rav4.
00:12:02
Yeah. And I think that's interesting
because, you know,
00:12:04
this is the off road trim, right?
00:12:05
So you think about gravel roads,
maybe going camping, fishing, whatever.
00:12:09
I drove the Kia Sportage,
whatever they call their version,
00:12:13
the X-Line something or something. Yeah.
00:12:15
And I picked it up in New York City
and just driving in the city
00:12:17
with all the terrible roads and like,
curbs and we, you know, when gasoline,
00:12:21
I parked it on the street, stuff
like that.
00:12:22
I sort of actually felt better
in that version versus any other trim
00:12:25
line of that car
because you, I don't know,
00:12:28
think that when you sit up higher,
but you have a beefier tire.
00:12:30
Yeah, I feel like there's
00:12:31
a little more protection
for city driving in urban type situations.
00:12:34
So these might not strictly
be just for the people that, you know,
00:12:37
get off the pavement and find dirt
and that kind of stuff.
00:12:40
I think there is a call for it.
00:12:42
You know, if maybe you do live in a city.
And I think they look pretty cool, too.
00:12:45
Yeah. Totally. Yeah. It's funny.
00:12:47
So it seems like they could be very well
suited to tough city driving,
00:12:52
as well as if you live a little bit
00:12:53
more in the country,
like we know a lot of people.
00:12:55
And if you can speak to New Hampshire,
I can speak to Vermont,
00:12:58
where my mom lives.
00:12:59
There's
still a lot of dirt roads in Vermont.
00:13:01
I assume there is in New Hampshire
as well.
00:13:03
And so for people who live on a dirt road
and that they end up
00:13:06
having to drive on miles of dirt
00:13:08
roads at times, this could be another
a really good reason to get these right.
00:13:12
Oh for sure.
00:13:13
But beyond these,
I think to objective reasons,
00:13:17
if you're just drawn to it
for the fashion, maybe you're,
00:13:19
you know,
you kind of outdoorsy person with an eye
00:13:23
and you like the looks you,
you know, you like something
00:13:26
that's a little cool, a little different
than what all your neighbors have.
00:13:29
The trade offs aren't significant,
which I think is
00:13:32
really noteworthy right now, Wolf,
you know, fine tune, the finessing.
00:13:36
You know, things like, the impact and
handling that may show out on the track.
00:13:40
Right?
00:13:40
But for most people there, you know, it's
not going to be something noticeable.
00:13:45
So the trade offs are fine.
00:13:46
And even the fuel economy,
the difference looks like a real number.
00:13:50
It's an integer on paper.
00:13:51
But when you calculate it
out to the annual cost,
00:13:55
they were talking about
like $100 difference.
00:13:56
Year 38.
Verse 41 is very minimal. Correct.
00:13:59
I did notice something that I didn't like
as much in, in this woodland chorus.
00:14:05
If you guys noticed,
I didn't like the front seats as much.
00:14:07
Did you guys notice anything or like,
I'll tell you what,
00:14:11
I just thought that they were flatter,
just not as comfortable.
00:14:14
They don't hold you in place as well.
00:14:15
And,
it actually has a different seat shape,
00:14:19
so it's not the same seat,
and it just didn't work as well for me.
00:14:22
And like, there was even a sort of a seam
on the upper seat back
00:14:26
that was bothering me a little bit.
Did you notice that a little drop?
00:14:27
Yeah.
00:14:28
Felt very much the same, to be honest.
00:14:31
I don't love the the regular Rav4's these
perhaps a hint less, you know, maybe
00:14:36
file it with, you know, the riding, the
handling it, you know, little differences.
00:14:41
These look pretty cool.
00:14:42
And I think that's the case
with most of its rivals, you know,
00:14:46
thinking in particular of, the Cr-V,
whose seats I think look fairly similar.
00:14:51
They look pretty cool
and they do the part, but they don't feel
00:14:54
as good as I might like. Yeah.
00:14:56
Were you lukewarm on them?
I thought they looked cool.
00:14:59
That was my first impression.
Opening door.
00:15:00
I'm like, oh, that's neat again.
00:15:02
I don't fit all that
well in any of the rav4's.
00:15:05
I find the whole driver's area
just a little bit tight,
00:15:07
especially like the center
console intrusion.
00:15:09
So with that,
00:15:10
you know, but I don't know that
I would really call the seat out
00:15:12
as being a difference for me.
00:15:14
Yeah, neither are awesome,
but like, they're manageable.
00:15:16
And I don't know if it'd be a deal breaker
for me buying one more.
00:15:19
So probably just the tightness of the
driver's area might be my deal breaker.
00:15:22
Yeah, I think if I recall correctly,
both of us noted in the logbooks that,
00:15:26
because of, you know, how tight
everything is in the comfort,
00:15:30
we may not want to be in long.
00:15:32
Yeah.
00:15:32
In these for long road trips,
which may be a factor for some buyers
00:15:37
because, you know, in our households,
00:15:39
you know, if speak for,
it may not be an all purpose vehicle,
00:15:44
it may be a great little commuter,
so forth.
00:15:46
But if you got to load up the family,
00:15:47
you know, may choose
something more comfortable, right? Yeah.
00:15:50
Controls are basically, you know,
identical to the regular Rav4 highs
00:15:54
and lows.
00:15:54
They're, things that you like
and don't like about the controls.
00:15:57
Pretty easy to use or overall,
it's pretty easy.
00:16:00
This has the I don't say new.
00:16:03
I guess it's new. The
I don't know what the number is.
00:16:05
But the newer version of Toyota's
infotainment screen system kind of thing.
00:16:09
And I mean, it's not awesome,
but it is better.
00:16:13
They went in the right direction,
and I think it's nice that it's
00:16:16
basically the same across
all the different trim lines of the Rav4.
00:16:20
You know,
so that's not really a determining factor.
00:16:22
You know, if you're picking this trim
versus that trim,
00:16:24
they're all equally is good.
00:16:25
Yeah.
00:16:26
My, my biggest issue with the controls
really is just the climate stuff
00:16:29
because fan speed, manual
fan speed controls are on the touchscreen
00:16:34
and they're kind of a little bit small
and and hard to press at times,
00:16:38
especially while you're driving.
00:16:39
And then even they have
physical temperature controls, but
00:16:43
especially when you're wearing sunglasses,
there's they're just kind of dark.
00:16:46
And so, I,
it would like, take extra attention
00:16:49
for me to look at either one of those
to make those adjustments.
00:16:52
So that was kind of my only issues there.
00:16:54
But in general, no big, no big issues.
00:16:56
Yeah, I think the infotainment system
itself is incrementally improved.
00:17:00
But you know, it's nice
having a home button, for instance. Yeah.
00:17:03
But I found it difficult
to repair my phone.
00:17:06
Yeah, that seems to be a thing. Yeah.
00:17:08
Right. Yeah.
00:17:09
So you meaning you get back in?
00:17:11
Yeah. It was paired.
00:17:13
Right.
00:17:13
Get back in.
00:17:14
And then it just there's not
it doesn't want to either.
00:17:17
Doesn't recognize it or it's going to
Bluetooth audio rather than Android Auto.
00:17:21
Yeah.
00:17:22
And the only way I found around
it is to go back into the settings
00:17:26
and kind of go through the process again.
00:17:28
Yeah.
00:17:29
Which can be frustrating
if you just want to get in and go, yeah.
00:17:32
Which I assume most people do.
00:17:35
Yeah. Or else we're always late.
00:17:37
I know I'm always late.
00:17:38
That's kind of
I mean, I have a basically a ritual.
00:17:40
Every time I pull out the gate,
00:17:41
I sit there
and go through this whole process,
00:17:43
which includes restarting my phone
and a bunch of stuff
00:17:45
as you wait for the gate to close.
00:17:46
I mean, I think if I bought one,
if I owned one, I would
00:17:49
just have the right cable in the car
and just go wired and just let it be.
00:17:53
But are you iPhone or Android Auto?
00:17:55
I have an iPhone is on my iPhone
as and I had the same problem I was in.
00:17:57
Not exclusively.
00:17:58
I just sort of every whenever
my phone is dead,
00:18:00
I just kind of get whatever is the best
deal of the best one is. Yeah.
00:18:03
So I tend to go back and forth.
00:18:05
But yeah, it seems to definitely be
I mean, I know iPhone people
00:18:09
complain about it, but clearly Android
people have some trouble too.
00:18:11
So, speaking of the,
you just a little bit of extra
00:18:16
attention that's required
for those climate controls.
00:18:19
Do you know where I'm going with this?
00:18:21
I'm interested to
to see what I want to know here in camera.
00:18:24
Oh, yeah.
00:18:26
Constant companion.
00:18:27
Yeah.
00:18:27
So, obviously with this one,
you can't turn it off.
00:18:30
You don't have to have it on.
00:18:31
I personally, I mean, I have it on a
from a tester perspective,
00:18:36
but also I feel like they are,
a good safety thing.
00:18:39
Right. Because we don't
we want to make sure we're painting.
00:18:42
Absolutely road.
00:18:43
But this one, correct me if I'm wrong,
seems super picky and sensitive
00:18:47
to the point. Hypersensitive.
00:18:49
And again,
00:18:50
Maddie McCarty, our you know, usability
expert, would say that, well,
00:18:54
the main problem here
is that you've designed,
00:18:56
you know, your your climate controls
that aren't as easy to use.
00:18:59
So they require you to look away
and then it gets mad at you.
00:19:03
So typically it was mad at me
when I was trying to adjust
00:19:06
the manual fan speed,
but it also gets mad.
00:19:09
And again,
00:19:09
maybe Maddie would have an opinion
that this is okay
00:19:12
when you're looking
at the driver's display.
00:19:14
So I'm looking at the driver's display,
which means my eyes are
00:19:17
maybe not quite on the road, but
they're certainly in line with the road.
00:19:20
And so sometimes I'd be looking at that
and it will get mad at me,
00:19:22
and it gets mad in a very obnoxious way,
am I right?
00:19:25
Like, it's kind of too quick. Yeah, yeah.
00:19:29
Be nice.
00:19:29
If there was one,
maybe one more second of delay before
00:19:31
yells at you and,
the warnings kind of stern.
00:19:34
Yeah. That's fine.
00:19:35
I mean, it's angry.
00:19:36
I'm like, I don't, you know,
I get yelled enough at work.
00:19:39
I don't need it from the car as well,
you know, like, I don't know, I would say
00:19:43
I think there's something to I agree
that I think the systems are worthwhile.
00:19:45
Right.
00:19:45
Because we're all
we all could be distracted by something.
00:19:49
But a system that is so sensitive, you're
going to be you're going to get annoyed.
00:19:53
You're going to turn it off.
00:19:54
Now what good is it to have a system
that you've just turned off?
00:19:56
So you have zero?
00:19:57
I do think, a little bit of work
could be done there.
00:19:59
Yeah, I can see the challenge
from engineering it in terms of
00:20:04
the difference
from being naggy versus appropriate.
00:20:06
It might not even be a full second,
but it's our perception of threat.
00:20:10
Like I just needed a moment more. Right.
00:20:13
And you know, I found that half the time
00:20:16
it got mad at me because of a problem
IT manufacturer.
00:20:19
I'm trying to use the controls, right.
00:20:21
The other time I might be looking
at my wife talking, and then you know,
00:20:25
almost becomes like a rude interruption
in the conversation.
00:20:28
You know, like, a child
attracting attention, right?
00:20:32
Right, right.
00:20:33
Okay.
00:20:34
So I think what we've determined is that,
00:20:38
you know, there aren't a lot of
trade offs with these things, right?
00:20:43
With, with this one in particular.
00:20:45
I mean, I think we found that actually out
with when we had a bunch of them here
00:20:48
that there aren't as many trade offs
as we thought there were going to be.
00:20:52
And I do agree with
I think both of you basically hinted at it
00:20:56
or flat out said it, that a big reason
to buy one of these off
00:20:59
road trips is for the styling,
because that we are we know
00:21:02
how important wheels and in this case
tires for the whole year change.
00:21:06
The look of the look of a vehicle goes
from looking like a regular service
00:21:09
to that thing's kind of tough looking.
00:21:11
Yeah, I think that's, added to
00:21:13
with the roof rack, too,
because compared to a Rav4, without it,
00:21:16
all of a sudden
it seems a little bigger presence.
00:21:19
But I wish
they went a step further with it.
00:21:22
So the front is different, right.
00:21:24
And, you know, I don't necessarily
00:21:26
love the kind of building
block type design that they chose.
00:21:30
I would have loved
if it was far more retro.
00:21:33
And so that when you looked at it,
you thought of, you know, an old f-j, a,
00:21:36
you know, a lighter Land Cruiser
or something that like, oh yeah, off
00:21:40
road in a way that I think Ford
captured with the Bronco Sport.
00:21:45
Yeah.
00:21:45
Where, you know, somehow it's a shrunk
down and, you know, kind of a baby Bronco.
00:21:49
And that's kind of fun.
00:21:51
And likewise on the inside, know the trim
in the patterns are unique to this.
00:21:56
But there isn't anything that says would
00:21:58
I mean, not always
they're not something literally wood.
00:22:01
But if they're choosing geometric patterns
00:22:04
and so forth, abstract
art or whatever on the doors,
00:22:07
why isn't it look like a forest
or a mountain or,
00:22:11
you know, something that evokes, I mean,
the whole conceit with the wilderness.
00:22:14
I just did
a video on the Crosstrek Wilderness,
00:22:16
and I mean the floor mats
and there's emblems in the headrests
00:22:20
that have like, mountains
and there's a bumper cover
00:22:23
strip on the back that's all like
geometric kind of mountain rock shapes.
00:22:26
They kind of went the whole other way,
like all the way, into that.
00:22:30
But this feels thin to me, right?
00:22:32
It feels thin.
00:22:33
Both in terms of no skid plates. Right.
00:22:36
Why not throw us a skid plate?
00:22:38
The interior has, what, like,
rust colored,
00:22:43
you know, trim here
and there that those false colored
00:22:46
gives a little accent
and a steering wheel accent,
00:22:48
and then it has woodland
rubber floor mats.
00:22:51
And the coolest thing about the exterior
is the Rigid Industries fog lights
00:22:55
in Japanese.
00:22:56
Like, how many times does this idiot
talk about those things?
00:22:59
How often you off roading in the dark,
where you go into the mall and the rigid
00:23:02
industries is actually a real off
road brand, well known.
00:23:06
And I bring it up because, and again,
I know how much everyone loves me
00:23:11
talking about my Tacoma,
00:23:12
but Alex and Isaac, again,
I've talked about his he has a 2000
00:23:15
Toyota Forerunner, and we do go actual off
roading together with our trucks.
00:23:20
And sometimes he has,
several LED off road lights.
00:23:24
So he turns his headlights off
and he has just these cool,
00:23:27
LED lights on, and that's really neat,
except as near as I can tell.
00:23:31
And, I don't know,
maybe it's a legality thing.
00:23:32
You can't have just these rigid
00:23:34
industries, fog lights on
and nothing else on.
00:23:37
I tried every configuration,
00:23:38
you know, headlights
off, parking lights on, fog lights on.
00:23:42
Couldn't do it.
00:23:43
It just you can't do it
without the actual headlights on,
00:23:46
but they still look pretty
darn cool on the vehicle.
00:23:48
Now, that's not a reason to buy it.
00:23:50
And that's where I want to go next.
00:23:51
So I'll start with you, Jeff.
00:23:53
If, between the regular Rav4
00:23:57
and this Rav4 woodland,
which one would you buy?
00:24:00
And if, and if it's not for you,
who do you think this woodland is for?
00:24:07
What kind of buyer is it for?
00:24:09
I'm kind of torn on that.
00:24:10
That seems like a simple one.
00:24:12
I see the virtues.
00:24:13
You know, I think it would help
somebody who, either lives in a,
00:24:17
you know, really crater filled city or,
00:24:20
you know, has a legitimate need to,
you know, go on a gravel road or,
00:24:25
you know, travel
a little bit off pavement.
00:24:27
But the compromises are very slight.
00:24:29
So ultimately,
I would say if it appeals to you
00:24:32
and the extra cost, which is about $2,
00:24:36
if that doesn't faze you, then go for it.
00:24:39
I have nothing at all against that.
00:24:41
I think for myself I'd probably
just get the regular one
00:24:44
because at least at the moment,
I'm not going off road very much, right.
00:24:48
And I try and avoid potholes now. So
00:24:52
for that, the $2
I think would be money, well saved.
00:24:56
Yeah. What about you, Mike?
00:24:57
So I think it's tough.
00:24:59
I think the, the $2
I think matters in this case,
00:25:04
because it's not like it's
a $10 swing to get to this level,
00:25:07
because to your point, they didn't
put a lot of off road bits in here.
00:25:10
It's really a set of tires
and a roof rack. Yeah.
00:25:13
And I don't know if the roof rack
would be really functional for me.
00:25:16
So really we're looking at tires. Yeah.
00:25:17
So what would I spend to just to put a set
of all terrains on a regular Rav4?
00:25:20
Probably less than $2.
00:25:22
And if I like the look,
00:25:24
you know, you don't get the like
the seats in the, the whatever,
00:25:26
the bronzy color interior stuff,
but that doesn't really matter.
00:25:30
I might just go
regular Rav4 and put a set of tires on it
00:25:33
if I kind of want that looking
maybe a little more functionality.
00:25:36
That being said,
there is also the plug in hybrid,
00:25:38
and you can get the plug in hybrid
in the woodland trim as well.
00:25:41
And I think that becomes interesting.
00:25:42
Yeah,
because you get a lot of EV operations.
00:25:46
You get a lot of quiet operation.
00:25:47
You could even have
some virtually silent off road
00:25:51
driving,
which is actually kind of pleasant.
00:25:54
It's almost like
going for a walk in the woods.
00:25:56
It's it's a strange thing
because I like cars
00:25:58
and internal combustion
and I've exhaust on everything I own,
00:26:01
and they're all louder
than they should be.
00:26:02
But there's something nicer
just being in the woods in.
00:26:05
It's quiet.
00:26:06
So that in my notes
that I was going to mention,
00:26:08
which of course I forgot to mention
and I don't know where it is in my notes,
00:26:11
but I remembered when we did the,
the off road driving around our track,
00:26:15
which, you know,
00:26:16
yeah, Mike was involved in kind of
making up this off road course for us.
00:26:20
That was one of the cool
things about this Rav4.
00:26:23
Again, the borrowed one that we did,
we haven't done that with this one
00:26:25
because it hasn't gone
through actual testing yet.
00:26:27
But it was neat to be in an off road
situation and have it in its electric mode
00:26:32
because it's a hybrid,
and that was kind of cool. It was.
00:26:34
I mean, you could hear birds
and you know, yeah,
00:26:36
as you're going over the sticks and stuff.
00:26:37
So just different experience.
00:26:39
That being said, the plug in hybrid
is like that $10 swing.
00:26:42
So that is a lot of money to spend.
00:26:44
But it is really fast too. Yeah.
00:26:46
Like it's incredibly fast.
00:26:47
It's a lot of vehicle I don't know
I'd probably get the regular one.
00:26:50
Do they maybe put some all terrains on it.
00:26:51
Do we need a fourth Rav4
there though here at the track?
00:26:55
I mean because we already have three
right now we have three rav4's.
00:26:58
We have maybe the Jeep Wrangler Rav4.
00:27:00
Yeah, I'd vote for the GR.
00:27:02
We got to drive that.
00:27:03
Yeah.
00:27:03
That's the the the borrow one for sure.
00:27:06
Yeah.
00:27:06
Just to see what that's about.
00:27:07
But it's I mean,
they kind of have a different flavor
00:27:10
depending on what you want to spend on
what you want.
00:27:12
Yeah.
00:27:13
My biggest complaint
00:27:14
across the board on all of these is all
the colors are really kind of like drab
00:27:17
and sort of depressing.
00:27:18
You can get a red,
but otherwise it's like grays and even the
00:27:23
same boring.
00:27:23
You can get red, you can get red,
you can get red in any of them.
00:27:26
But I just wish there was.
00:27:27
I get like, it's so again,
it has two trends, right?
00:27:30
Everything comes back around.
00:27:31
I just wish
there was another choice of color,
00:27:34
something to kind of bright
because I do think people like that
00:27:37
and we see that a lot of like off road
vehicles too, that, you know,
00:27:39
yeah,
you're not blending into the scenery,
00:27:41
but sometimes it is actually nice
to stand out for visibility,
00:27:43
like on a trail, right?
00:27:45
Yeah. You know, through the woods
and stuff like that.
00:27:46
So a green camouflage
color is what you want.
00:27:50
I don't know, I mean, I do like green
and that might be interesting,
00:27:52
but you know, a yellow
or just a, an oddball color,
00:27:55
something bright,
maybe a teal, something like that. Yeah.
00:27:58
All right.
00:27:58
I think that if you like the way
this thing looks and,
00:28:02
and, I go for it, like
you're not going to be disappointed by me.
00:28:06
Disappointed? There's very few trade offs.
00:28:08
And there even are some, some, some wins
in terms of the slightly more comfortable
00:28:13
ride and the better, off road traction,
better gravel road, dirt road traction.
00:28:17
So if you
if you like the way it looks, go for it.
00:28:19
You're basically and just make sure
the front seats work for you.
00:28:23
That's one.
That's it. Want and access as well.
00:28:25
And the price seems pretty reasonable.
00:28:27
It seems like you get $2 worth of,
as with every vehicle
00:28:31
that goes through our test program right
now, it's getting, 2000 braking miles.
00:28:34
So it will be entering
the actual instrumented test phase two
00:28:37
actually on the alignment rack right now.
00:28:39
Oh, wow.
00:28:39
So he has he has the Crossout Chronicles,
the inside story.
00:28:42
So then, pay attention to,
Consumer reports.org
00:28:46
because we will be having full road test
results of this Rav4 woodland up soon.
00:28:50
For 90 years, Consumer Reports
has been testing, reviewing,
00:28:54
and advocating for you.
00:28:55
We are independent and nonprofit
memberships don't cover everything we do.
00:28:59
So please consider donating today
to help us go further.
00:29:03
Now we're going to move
to our audience question of the week.
00:29:07
And remember, the best way to reach us
is to send your questions to Talking Cars.
00:29:11
At Consumer Dork.
00:29:13
We like to give people incentive
to send in awesome questions like
00:29:18
not just a good question, but an amazing
question that really kind of like,
00:29:22
what did the click on clock used to say,
you know, stomp the chomps?
00:29:26
Yeah, right.
00:29:26
So try and stomp the chomps, right.
00:29:28
With a really good question.
00:29:30
And if you do and if we use your question
on the show, our producers will send you
00:29:34
some KR badge swag, like a t shirt
or something like that.
00:29:38
With that
we actually, have a video question today
00:29:42
from Spencer from Roanoke, Virginia.
00:29:44
So let's see what Spencer is asking us
today.
00:29:46
Hello.
00:29:47
So my question is at the dealership,
are any of the add ons actually worth it?
00:29:52
I understand that conventional financial
and negotiating
00:29:56
advice for at the dealership would suggest
just don't put any those all in.
00:30:00
It's just a waste of money.
00:30:01
You could probably go buy a car class up
if you just,
00:30:05
you know, didn't have those add ons.
00:30:08
But just
00:30:09
wondering your opinion
if there's ever any value to those.
00:30:12
And, you know, if I've gotten duped
in the past by adding on some things and,
00:30:17
you know, just if you don't mind,
just kind of speak to some of them, like
00:30:20
oil change packages, upholstery packages,
service contracts, extended warranties,
00:30:24
is anything like that of really value
or should just kind of cleanly say,
00:30:29
no, I'm not going to have any of those
when I go to the dealership and buy a car.
00:30:32
So we hear about this question a lot.
00:30:34
And, certainly,
we've written stories about it and,
00:30:38
and we write these stories
and we talk about it
00:30:41
because it is such an important question.
00:30:43
I mean, I just had, a thing
the other day where a friend of a friend,
00:30:48
her daughter was buying her first car.
00:30:51
She it's just early 20s,
00:30:52
first true job out of college,
and she's buying a Mazda CX five.
00:30:56
And, her her daughter and husband
were out buying the car,
00:31:01
and she found out that they got talked
00:31:03
into buying, paint protection package
and an extended warranty.
00:31:07
And as soon as she heard this, she's like,
no, no, no, my kid Consumer Reports.
00:31:12
And don't get those things, you know?
00:31:14
So my point is that these things happen
and that's why it's important.
00:31:17
And I'm it's a great question like what
should I get and what shouldn't I get.
00:31:22
Like what's worth and and what isn't.
00:31:24
And so that's about all I'm going to say
because we have two great guys
00:31:28
to talk about it today.
00:31:29
Jeff, who has written stories
about us before on this exact topic,
00:31:32
and of course, Mike Crossan,
who has worked at dealers before.
00:31:35
So, you know, the ins and outs of,
what their
00:31:38
you know, what they're trying to do
and how they try
00:31:40
and get you to, kind of go,
do you want to,
00:31:42
you know, sort of feeling a little guilty
that you really need these things.
00:31:45
But let's start, Jeff,
with some of these things that people are
00:31:47
that that usually it's the,
00:31:49
insurance and finance guy
that's going to be trying to talk
00:31:52
you into these things right before you're
trying to get out the door.
00:31:55
So what, walk us through some that are
maybe you should always avoid
00:31:59
and maybe some
you might give some consideration to.
00:32:01
Yeah, sure.
00:32:02
So it's important to recognize
that so much energy is focused
00:32:06
on choosing the right vehicle.
00:32:07
And frankly,
that's the fun part of shopping.
00:32:09
By the time
00:32:10
you get through the negotiation
and you're ready to leave the dealership,
00:32:13
you may have been there for hours.
00:32:14
Maybe emotional may be stressful,
you may be hungry.
00:32:17
You may have kids tugging at you.
00:32:19
Then they put you in a room
with the most experienced,
00:32:23
seasoned person
there who's also one of the highest paid.
00:32:27
His or she is going to be very skilled
in extracting
00:32:30
every last dollar
from your checking account.
00:32:33
It's important to have your guard up
and to think of the types of things
00:32:37
we'll kick around here before you go
in, you know what makes sense to you?
00:32:41
What are you interested?
What do you just want to say?
00:32:44
Respectfully?
No thank you. I'm going to pass.
00:32:46
It's certainly incumbent on the dealership
to make a profit.
00:32:49
Capitalism is what it is,
00:32:51
but it's also up to the shopper to decide
what they want to spend their money on.
00:32:55
So with with that said,
00:32:58
I think you can say no
to almost everything.
00:33:01
Yeah.
00:33:01
And there may be some rare cases
where, an add on makes some sense, but
00:33:05
most of them,
00:33:06
frankly, don't make financial sense.
00:33:09
And any of them,
if you add on to the price of the car,
00:33:12
you just negotiate it and finance
it become even more expensive over time.
00:33:17
So, you know the types of things
that you're going to see.
00:33:20
They're going to often pitch
an extended warranty, for instance.
00:33:24
Or if you're buying a new car,
it comes with a warranty.
00:33:27
And usually they're very good and often
very long, especially if you're buying
00:33:31
an electric vehicle or a hybrid.
00:33:33
The powertrain warranty
can be quite extensive, we would say.
00:33:36
Instead, focus your research
on choosing a reliable vehicle,
00:33:40
one that's predicted
to have better than average reliability.
00:33:43
Spend the money to get that,
rather than a model
00:33:46
that might be discounted
but has lower reliability. But
00:33:50
if you have your heart set on something,
you know it's not the best choice,
00:33:54
then you know the added
00:33:56
protection could be worth thinking about,
but you got to focus on the details.
00:34:00
You want to make sure the dealers are not
selling you some third party warranty.
00:34:04
You want it through the, the factory
and as much as you can,
00:34:08
but you need it through the factory
so that if you move,
00:34:11
if you're traveling, you know exactly
where you can go to get the work done.
00:34:14
And you have someone
that's going to take your call,
00:34:17
you know, five years from now
when you need the warranty.
00:34:19
Otherwise, you may not be someplace
that's willing to honor it right now.
00:34:23
He specifically mentioned,
he said oil change packages,
00:34:27
which I think he or
00:34:29
maybe he said service contracts,
which are kind of the same thing.
00:34:31
Mike, are those something you'd ever,
so recommend somebody get,
00:34:35
or is that usually more expensive
than all of these possibilities?
00:34:39
Right.
00:34:40
And I'm just going to rattle
through a list here.
00:34:41
So we're gonna call them
extended warranties.
00:34:43
And I'll circle back to that
because they're not really warranties,
00:34:45
but there's wheel and tire package
fabric protection, paint protection.
00:34:48
Sometimes there's like a key policy
if you lose or damage a key gap,
00:34:51
insurance nitrogen in the tires
in like maintenance or an oil change plan
00:34:55
you need to see
does it make financial sense?
00:34:58
And then the answer is maybe you get it,
maybe you don't.
00:35:00
The way these work, it's like insurance.
00:35:03
You pay X amount per year
to ensure your Tacoma.
00:35:06
And they're just hoping
that you don't wreck it.
00:35:08
And let's say you do wreck
and you cause $100 worth of damage
00:35:10
because you run into that new Jaguar
that they just, you know, announced,
00:35:14
they lose, right?
00:35:15
Because you haven't given them
as much as they have to pay out. Right.
00:35:18
But they know the percentages.
Most people don't crash.
00:35:20
Most people pay more than they pay out.
00:35:22
So the insurance company makes money.
00:35:23
And that's the same thing
that's happening here.
00:35:25
So let's say you has for oil changes
and maybe like two cabin
00:35:28
air filters go to service
and say I'm buying this car.
00:35:32
What does an oil change cost.
What does a cabin filter cost.
00:35:34
Do the math and you might save 2530
00:35:38
bucks like over the course
of these four oil changes.
00:35:41
So then you have to
think of that is a savings.
00:35:43
But is it
00:35:46
specific to this dealer.
00:35:47
Or if I move or I'm somewhere else,
can I use it elsewhere?
00:35:50
Also, think about the fact that
you've given them five, six, $700 today.
00:35:53
They have your money, so now the dealer
can do whatever they want with your money.
00:35:57
You know, they invest it
00:35:57
and they're making money off your money,
and your money is now in their hands.
00:36:01
You're
prepaying essentially for these services.
00:36:04
You know, you could get in an accident
and you're never going to realize
00:36:07
these services.
00:36:07
You could sell the car.
00:36:08
Maybe you just don't like the car
and you sell it.
00:36:10
So now you've lost, right?
00:36:11
So it just it's a mathematical equation.
00:36:14
Just, you know,
are you going to get value out of it?
00:36:16
So oil change or maintenance program
maybe some save you more than others.
00:36:21
Nitrogen in the tires. Skip it.
00:36:23
Air is 70% nitrogen.
00:36:27
So from
00:36:28
a science point of view, yes, there's
a benefit for nitrogen in the real world.
00:36:31
Absolutely not.
00:36:32
If the car comes with it, it's fine.
00:36:34
You know, it's got the green caps on it.
Just make sure you're not paying for it.
00:36:37
Gap insurance, I would say
just make sure you have really good
00:36:40
insurance versus buying gap insurance.
00:36:42
But, you know, read the policies
and all that kind of stuff.
00:36:46
Keys.
00:36:47
I don't know if you're prone
to losing things.
00:36:49
Maybe. But again, do the math.
00:36:51
Find out what the key costs, find out what
it cost to program and go from there.
00:36:55
Pain, fabric protection.
00:36:56
I was just going to ask you that
because I want to get the inside.
00:36:59
So right now here's the deal with these.
00:37:00
What the deal is with paint protection
and fabric is is fabric just Scotchgard.
00:37:04
So that's a name brand product.
00:37:06
And basically all cars go through detail.
00:37:09
They spray some stuff on there.
00:37:10
And does it work. Yeah it works.
00:37:12
Does it work forever. No.
00:37:13
It needs to be reapplied.
That's in the fine print.
00:37:16
But you could probably do it yourself.
00:37:17
You could,
but so here's what you're actually buying.
00:37:19
You're not a buy.
00:37:20
You're not actually buying the product
that they put on the seat or the paint.
00:37:23
You're buying insurance policy
against something happening.
00:37:26
So if you spill something
or like if you wear designer jeans,
00:37:29
the blue rubs off
on your light color fabric.
00:37:32
The policy will cover, in theory,
00:37:35
getting that cleaned or getting the seat
cover replaced or having paint stuffed on.
00:37:39
The trouble is, working at a dealership
00:37:41
and I worked at dealers
that sold this stuff.
00:37:43
Getting the policy to actually
00:37:46
work is so difficult and it doesn't pay.
00:37:49
You go through hours of work
as the service advisor to get $35.
00:37:53
Now that I can give
my detail, got a cleaner?
00:37:55
I'm better off just going in
begging my detail guy to clean it.
00:37:57
That's what happens around back.
00:37:59
There's an advisor cleaning it myself,
so I would skip those.
00:38:02
Again, you're buying an insurance policy
that you're probably
00:38:05
never going to make a claim on.
00:38:06
They're very difficult to claim
now when it comes to warranties.
00:38:10
If you're let's say
we're on a Toyota episode here.
00:38:12
So you're buying a Toyota.
They're generally reliable.
00:38:14
I probably wouldn't put
any kind of extra warranty on a Toyota.
00:38:17
But in a lot of manufacturers,
when you buy a new car,
00:38:19
you can actually buy the certified
pre-owned warranty extension.
00:38:23
So that would be like from Toyota,
00:38:25
from Ford, from Mercedes,
you know, at the dealer where you are.
00:38:28
If you're planning on keeping the car
00:38:29
essentially like forever,
that might not be a bad thing to do
00:38:33
because it does get you some extra mileage
and some extra time on your warranty.
00:38:37
But then Jeff brought up these third party
warranties.
00:38:40
This typically comes about,
you know, you're at a Volkswagen
00:38:42
dealership and you're buying a used Audi
and they're selling.
00:38:46
They can't sell you Volkswagen coverage,
but they can sell you
00:38:48
from the ABC company of this
this insurance policy.
00:38:52
They're going to call it a warranty,
but it's not really warranty.
00:38:54
You know, you need to read the fine print
and it's boring, but you need to read it
00:38:58
because there's all kinds of pitfalls
that happen in there.
00:39:01
And the example I can give is
I worked at an Audi dealership
00:39:04
and just north of us was a Volkswagen
dealership.
00:39:06
They sold a lot of used Audi. Yes.
00:39:08
And the telltale was the person comes in
and they have the paperwork with them
00:39:12
and it's one of these
like triplicate carbon copies.
00:39:14
It was pink and yellow
and they like unroll it
00:39:16
like it's the scroll as they're walking
it I'm like, oh boy, here we go.
00:39:19
Because I know where they bought it
and I know where we're headed.
00:39:21
Yeah, this car's got problems.
00:39:23
You have to pay for diagnosis.
00:39:25
So you just bought this car.
00:39:26
You have a warranty that you spent four,
00:39:27
five, six, $7 for, maybe, depending
on, you know, the level of car you bought.
00:39:32
And I'm like, well,
you have three problems.
00:39:33
I need three hours of diagnosis.
00:39:35
So that's $200 an hour.
00:39:37
So you've got to come up with 600 bucks
for for us to look at the car.
00:39:40
Then I have to call it in
00:39:42
depending on what it is.
00:39:43
Is it covered.
They might need to come out, inspect it.
00:39:46
You might have to pay for tear down
00:39:47
if I have to go into an engineer
transmission.
00:39:49
So what that means is
they're going to send inspector,
00:39:51
but they want to hold the broken part
in their hand.
00:39:53
That might be inside your motor.
00:39:55
So I got to say, Mike, I need $7
from you to take your engine apart
00:39:59
and get this broken piece out,
and you're like, I have a warranty.
00:40:02
I'm like, yes, you do, but they need to
see the thing and I need to pay my tech.
00:40:06
So now you're on the hook
for the full boat,
00:40:08
hoping that they're going to cover it.
All right.
00:40:09
So you need to read that fine print
because exclusions matter.
00:40:13
What's included matters.
A lot of them don't cover fluids. Right.
00:40:16
You know, so you're still buying the oil
and the coolant and stuff like that.
00:40:19
So it ends up becoming kind of a. Yeah.
00:40:22
Even though you think
you have this pretty good warranty
00:40:25
and maybe they will cover it
at some point.
00:40:27
It's going to be a lot of push
to jump through
00:40:30
to get it, extend your service time.
00:40:32
And again their, their business
is taking in more money than they pay out.
00:40:36
Right. So
and they have the actuarial tables.
00:40:38
They know they know how much your A4, your
A6, your AA is going to cost on average.
00:40:43
So they sell you the appropriate plan
and they're basically gambling.
00:40:48
In that's essentially what you're doing to
when you're buying this, whatever
00:40:51
the cost is, you're saying
my car is gonna have problems
00:40:53
and hopefully it has more problems
than what I just paid out,
00:40:56
which is ever where you want to be.
Hopefully the car is reliable.
00:40:58
Some of them are great.
00:40:59
Some of the aftermarket,
00:41:00
companies that offer them,
like CarMax, always had a pretty good one
00:41:04
over the years.
They've put restrictions on it. Yeah.
00:41:06
Like they don't do V12,
00:41:07
they don't do Amgs,
they don't do G wagons anymore
00:41:10
because they lost money
on every single one of them.
00:41:12
Right.
00:41:13
Fidelity always had a pretty good
extended warranty.
00:41:15
I worked for dealer Group, a big dealer
group that was privately owned.
00:41:19
We had our own. It was very good.
00:41:20
It was very easy to work with,
and it was good anywhere.
00:41:22
But this particular dealer
that was north of us with this scroll
00:41:26
that would come out when you call,
it sounded like the person you spoke
00:41:30
to was working from home before.
It was what the cool kids did.
00:41:33
It's like a guy, this kitchen table,
he's like, hello?
00:41:36
Like, I have this policy, like,
you want the policy numbers like, sure.
00:41:38
So you read off this policy number.
00:41:40
He's like, all right,
what kind of car is it?
00:41:42
Well, shouldn't you have that
when you brought up the policy number?
00:41:43
They don't know, right? And you're like,
I need to remain silent.
00:41:46
Guys are not covered. Thanks.
They just hang up on you.
00:41:49
It really seemed like it was a guy.
00:41:50
This kitchen table.
00:41:51
So that particular one
seemed pretty shady.
00:41:53
And you don't know is is the thing.
00:41:55
So what I would say is
00:41:58
go to service, go to the service center
00:42:00
at the dealer where you're buying
and talk to a service advisor.
00:42:03
They are direct.
00:42:05
They're the most direct people
you are going to meet
00:42:07
because they get be done by everybody.
00:42:09
And it's a self-preservation mechanism
that they develop.
00:42:12
They're going to tell you
what the deal is.
00:42:13
They're going to say, yeah,
you know, it covers a lot.
00:42:15
Yeah, sometimes we have trouble
getting audio stuff covered or whatever.
00:42:18
But they will be very honest with you.
00:42:19
Yeah. And tell them what you're buying,
what your concerns are.
00:42:22
And you'll get the real story from service
because service has no skin in the game
00:42:26
to lie to you at this point,
because when you come back,
00:42:29
they're the ones you have to break
00:42:30
the bad news to you
that this thing is not covered.
00:42:32
You know, I want to be upfront
with the customer ahead of time, right?
00:42:35
We're on the sales side and you have
and I say
00:42:37
they just want to get you to sign and pay.
00:42:39
And well,
now now your services problem basically.
00:42:42
So talk to service and read all the fine
print no matter how boring it is.
00:42:46
Read it. Okay.
00:42:48
Well, that's,
Professor Cross's lecture for the day.
00:42:51
Spencer, hopefully that helps
you out a little bit.
00:42:54
And I talked about,
some of the stories are written.
00:42:57
There's one up on Consumer
00:42:58
reports.org called Just Say No
to these car dealership extras.
00:43:02
So please check that out.
00:43:03
And lots of helpful
I want to point out that you can say no.
00:43:06
Yeah. You don't have to buy these things.
00:43:08
And I had a friend
who was buying a new car,
00:43:10
and he texted me from Five Eyes.
I guy, they're trying to sell me less.
00:43:12
I just say no. Yeah.
00:43:14
And he was there for hours, like,
why are you sitting there?
00:43:15
There's still time.
00:43:16
As soon as I say no and tell him
you'd like to move on and you're leaving.
00:43:19
You know, they work for you.
00:43:20
They're not holding you hostage.
00:43:21
Just be like, I understand, but thank you.
00:43:23
Know, I will sign the thing that says
I declined the coverage and let's move on.
00:43:27
Yeah, well,
I'll add that if you do want to say
00:43:29
yes to any of those things,
make sure you negotiate.
00:43:32
Right. A lot of them. Yeah. You can.
00:43:33
The price is a little flex.
00:43:34
Yeah.
00:43:34
And so what often happens is
00:43:36
well first of all they're really good
at making you feel guilty.
00:43:40
Like you're the bad guy here because what?
00:43:43
You wait, you're
not going to get an extended warranty.
00:43:46
You know, my favorite one
00:43:47
is there's a jar of, like,
nails and screws on the person's desk.
00:43:51
Of all the stuff
that have come out of tires.
00:43:53
Yeah, they want to sell you
the wheel and tire plan.
00:43:55
And sometimes that could be worth it.
00:43:58
If you worked in construction,
where maybe you're prone
00:44:00
to pick up a lot of debris, it might be
worth, you know, buying this plan.
00:44:03
But these plans, essentially they have
a limit as to what they will pay out.
00:44:07
Yeah. So you want to look at that
and you want to know what that is. Yeah.
00:44:10
And but to Jeff's point, if you say no,
say to an extended warranty,
00:44:14
don't be surprised if they say, you know,
we'll sell you this for like $2.
00:44:18
And then when you say no,
they might be like, well, you know, maybe
00:44:20
we can knock that down to 1500.
00:44:22
So they're going to try and figure out
a way to get some more money out of you.
00:44:25
Negotiation is part of the
the whole process.
00:44:27
But yeah, the saying no
is the strongest weapon you can win.
00:44:30
All right. So Spencer, hopefully
that, helps you out a little bit.
00:44:32
That's going to do it for this episode.
00:44:35
But before we go, we just want to,
talk a little bit about, helping us out.
00:44:39
We are a nonprofit organization here
at Consumer Reports.
00:44:42
So that means we don't take any,
advertisements on our website.
00:44:46
We basically, are able to do what we do,
00:44:49
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00:44:52
To that end,
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00:44:55
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00:44:58
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00:45:00
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00:45:04
you, completely unbiased,
00:45:07
road tests and information on cars
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00:45:11
So please help us out if you can.
00:45:13
And now that actually is going to do it
for the episode.
00:45:16
If you want to learn more about the topics
and the vehicles that we talked about,
00:45:19
you can click on the links in the show
notes.
00:45:21
Don't forget to send us your questions.
00:45:22
So talking cars at consumers.
00:45:24
Org. As always,
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00:45:28
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00:45:31
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